----- Original Message -----
From: "Eduardo Corte Real" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "Filippo A. Salustri" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pre-Design?
> Hi Fil:
>
> Just before I get more into your definitions, I must clarify something: My
> question about pre-design started when I wanted to clarify (also) what was
> is legitimate for a research center in an University to do. It means also
> that the Universities (in my opinion) shouldn't compete with their
> graduates on the market (doing design). It is more of a moral (or ethics)
> issue than an epistemological one.
> I must go now,
> I'll read your post more carefully tomorow if you don't mind,
>
> Cheers,
>
> Eduardo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Filippo A. Salustri" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 4:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Pre-Design?
>
>
>> Eduardo et al,
>>
>> If I read you correctly, then 'pre-design' seems to carry aspects of what
>> many engineers refer to as project management and problem analysis.
>>
>> Project management, when done right, doesn't involve keeping the project
>> running once it starts, but also setting up (designing) the project.
>>
>> Problem analysis is the notion that the client is usually unsure, at
>> least to a degree, of what is actually being asked for. The engineering
>> designer usually assumes the responsibility of somehow validating that
>> the problem is the right one, and determining what is really needed,
>> before starting to design the solution.
>>
>> What I've found is that there is alot of problem analysis that occurs in
>> between episodes of designing. This is because we (engineers) tend to
>> think in hierarchies of systems (I'm not saying that this is necessarily
>> always a good thing). For instance, in designing a PDA, the 'client's
>> requirements lead to a certain episode of design, but the episode cannot
>> conclude the design without the engineers using the partial design +
>> problem definition to drive further explication of details of the
>> problem, which beget more design episodes.
>>
>> So while we distinguish problem analysis from design as two different
>> kinds of activities, we also recognise that they occur in some kind of
>> alternation and, possibly, in parallel.
>>
>> Eduardo, does this sound reasonable from your point of view of
>> 'pre-design'?
>>
>> Cheers.
>> Fil
>>
>>
>> Eduardo Corte Real wrote:
>>> Hi David:
>>>
>>> I'm one of pre-design fans.
>>> As I see it, in a research wise point of view, a pre-design research is
>>> oriented for a design solvable problem.
>>> My recent experience on that delt with orientation in hospitals.
>>> We know signage in hospitals have specific requirements. We all know
>>> that signage in hospitals should improve the general behaviour of the
>>> system: make it more comfortable for patients and less "energy wasting"
>>> for employes.
>>> This may come of some surprise but: Designers that project a design
>>> system for an hospital do it empirically and not using scientific
>>> methodologies to create theoretical models of behaviour on that
>>> particular situation.
>>> Well, to cut a long story short. Predesign research: All research that
>>> is determined by a design goal but stops before the design project. The
>>> research project on hospitals that I have been bossing stoped at
>>> defining norms for design projects.
>>> Another sense of pre-design is designing the design project (who will be
>>> doing this, what kind of sheets of paper will we use, how will we
>>> normalize our comunication). Designing an airport, for instance, is
>>> impossible without this kind of predesign: You are not actually
>>> designing the airport. In fact what you are (pre)designing is something
>>> that would be valid also for hospitals or parks or whatever complex
>>> stuff you want.
>>> These are tricky words in english (research project and design project)
>>> and even more in portuguese, so if you want more information on this
>>> oflist, feel free to ask.
>>>
>>> Eduardo
>>>
>>> Eduardo Corte-Real
>>> PhD Arch
>>> IADE-Design School Dir. Board Pres.
>>> UNIDCOM/IADE Researcher
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Pires" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:43 AM
>>> Subject: Pre-Design?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Pre- design? What's that? Helps the design project? or its a project
>>>> inside the project?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Prof. Filippo A. Salustri, Ph.D., P.Eng.
>> Department of Mechanical and Industrial Engineering
>> Ryerson University Tel: 416/979-5000 x7749
>> 350 Victoria St. Fax: 416/979-5265
>> Toronto, ON email: [log in to unmask]
>> M5B 2K3 Canada http://deed.ryerson.ca/~fil/
>
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