Can we please drop the self-help stick? This is a poetry list, and besides
it's offensive.
And for god's sake, "petcies?"
Mark
At 12:18 AM 6/22/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>To Glen Phillips
> From Judy Prince
>
>Glen,
>
>You probably wrote the Hitler quote to warn us that following one's "feel
>good" instinct may lead to a holocaust of unbelievable tragedy. You lead
>us to a vital point about "doing one's thing" with little knowledge (esp
>in the young who lack experience, lengthy friendships and many facts) that
>can easily result in chaos and a truncated life. Any teacher or parent
>can tell you that "feel good" behaviors build monsters in the young as
>well as those grown old but not self-knowing.
>
>I'd love to know how you and other petcies reconcile the Hitler quote and
>those I've posted with ones they might think of regarding how to make
>important changes in our lives. I don't know anyone who hasn't
>grappled---sometimes for years--with life-altering decisions. The more
>input we get, the better able, I think, we'll be to step forward to help
>ourselves. So, Glenn, what do YOU think?
>
>Judy
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Phillips" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:24 PM
>Subject: Re: TO MY DEAR PETCIES: an explanation
>
>
>>On 22/6/05 9:15 AM, "judy prince" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>Wasn't it Hitler who said,'if it feels good do it'?
>>Glen
>>>To Roger Day from Judy Prince
>>>
>>>Roger,
>>>
>>>Following are some quotes you may find friendly:
>>>
>>>**************************************
>>>"Follow your bliss" (Joseph Campbell, I think)
>>>
>>>"Go with your gut instinct; it will never steer you wrong" (a good friend)
>>>
>>>"Ever notice that 'What the hell!' is always the right decision?" (Marilyn
>>>Monroe)
>>>
>>>*************************************
>>>
>>>Consider this, Roger: What do you feel that you might lose if you do the
>>>MA? Are they things that are like cut toenails---happily and unconsciously
>>>dropped in the wastebasket because still attached they'd cause you no end of
>>>sharp pain and the eventual near-inability to move forward?
>>>
>>>Incidentally, I've an altogether revised life, having uprooted after 34
>>>years in Chicago. I moved here to Norfolk where I had neither family nor
>>>friends. No one, during my search for where to live, felt that I was making
>>>the right choice---to leave Chicago, let alone to go to a place that I
>>>barely knew! Because I had no way of knowing if they were right, and
>>>because I knew their concerns for my well being, I suffered greatly in what
>>>seemed endless tail-chasing to decide my own future.
>>>
>>>I've now been in Norfolk for nearly four years and think of it as my
>>>paradise. Few folks "back home" and even here understand my joy at being
>>>here. But, then, Roger, those folks must struggle and find their own paths
>>>and places, mustn't they? The struggle provides a rare opening for
>>>self-understanding. I don't see any loss in that whatsoever.
>>>
>>>Blessings on you as you move through your pathfinding, aided, always by the
>>>peace of trust-filled prayers,
>>>
>>>Judy
>>>from her paradise
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "roger day" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:55 AM
>>>Subject: Re: TO MY DEAR PETCIES: an explanation
>>>
>>>
>>>I see now that *part* of my motivation in applying for an MA course is
>>>in some part trying to get this magic. There are other reasons of
>>>course, some of which are real-world. Another is the fact that I've
>>>always wanted to take an English qualification ever since I was
>>>knee-high to a grasshopper. It maybe that I want to be in academia
>>>(I'll have to think on that).
>>>
>>>One course of action open to me is get out of my current job, sit
>>>there and write.
>>>
>>>Any poetecteras views on this quandry? Whether or not is nobler in the
>>>mind to take an MA or would rather fardles bear and stare at windows
>>>all the day, keyboard before me?
>>>
>>>Roger
>>>
>>>On 6/21/05, Ken Wolman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>roger day wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>Your play was useful in that it allowed me to expose a little of my
>>>>>history to the list, so I tips me hat to you, whoever you are!
>>>>>
>>>>>Glad to be of service! I hope my bit-part fitted well in your theatre
>>>>></bows to rapturous applause>.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've thought of taking a Poetry for Dummies course because I've
>>>>>sometime felt that I've been missing something, something that when I
>>>>>write goes astray. Of course, books and courses are never the answer.
>>>>>
>>>>And now Dr. Ken's Konfession. For years I believed such a thing
>>>>existed. Poetry for Dummies. If they can publish books like "Sex For
>>>>Dummies" ("Oh, THAT's what that's for! Hot damn!") and "Monte Carlo
>>>>Simulations for Dummies" (not, I assume, how to win at Vingt et Un), why
>>>>not "Poesie for Dummies" as well?
>>>>
>>>>Years ago, feeling that I was cheated of feature by dissembling Nature,
>>>>having no idea what a poem was, how to write one (even though I had), or
>>>>how to judge one without some Professor saying it was good, I tried to
>>>>find the magic book that had all the answers. The book I chose? <sit
>>>>down> William Empson's _Seven Types of Ambiguity_. No joke. No help.
>>>>
>>>>Oh, another plagiarism tale. True story. 1973, I'm a teaching
>>>>assistant. Three profs and me, the Shakespeare lecture course. I
>>>>thought I'd died and gone to Heaven. Then some kid in my personal
>>>>section hands me a paper, I forget on what, but as I'm reading it I'm
>>>>thinking "This kid writes fantastically, he can think on paper. Oh
>>>>God--wait a minute." I focus on the kid. The kid is nice, not a doofus
>>>>but not THAT bright. All of a sudden the writing sounds familiar. I am
>>>>the guy writing a dissertation on audience/reader response in
>>>>Shakespeare, and before I dropped him on his Scottish crown, Macbeth was
>>>>in there. So I knew the classic critical writings: A. C. Bradley, c.
>>>>1904. I look at Bradley. I look back at the kid. It's the same
>>>>words. Bradley didn't plagiarize the kid, I guess. I forget how, but I
>>>>got a message to the kid to come to the office I was using. He did not
>>>>seem like a jive-artist, just a jerk. He walks in totally unfraid and
>>>>totally clueless. I confronted him with his unattributed quotes and
>>>>Bradley's text. I thought the kid was going to cry, then faint. He had
>>>>no idea that what he was doing was not kosher. NOBODY had ever taught
>>>>this kid about plagiarism. He literally did not know he'd done it. It
>>>>was easier for the teachers along the way to ignore the whole greasy
>>>>issue until it got to the desk of a 31-year-old teaching assistant. I
>>>>told him to get back to work, he had something like two days to correct
>>>>the mess he'd made. The paper turned out to be not too hot but it was
>>>>at least HIS not too hot.
>>>>
>>>>Ken
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