medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
On Dec 30, 2004, at 3:45 PM, V. Kerry Inman wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
>
> Quoting richard landes <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> VKI: Here is the problem! We agree on everything but the terminology!
>
> the standard def. of millennial used by cohn, hobspawm,
>> worsley, barkun, ehrman, talmon, gry (1904), etc. etc. is an imminent
>> (ie apocalyptic) expectation of a radical and total transformation of
>> this world where evil and injustice rule into one of peace fellowship
>> and abundance.
>
> VKI: I see all these people and many others making 'premillennialism'
> and
> millennialism synonomous.
certainly not barkun, who is well aware of the american scene. but
please remember, you're talking about terms (pre- and post-millennial)
that date back, at the earliest, to the early 19th cn and are
specifically xn (even if they have loose counterparts in other
traditions). most people who work on millennialism only know about the
cataclysmic apocalyptic variety. when i ran into the sabbatical
millennialism as a graduate student that was the first time i had run
into a non-apocalyptic millennialism (wait till 6000!). i didn't learn
this protestant vocabulary until i got involved in the CMS.
> If you want to do that, okay, I'll live with it. But I
> have been considering Augustine's view as postmillennialist. Let me
> clarify how
> I use the terminology. 'postmillennial' in my
> definition, and that of the Charles Hodge, B. B. Warfield, Loraine
> Boetner,
> Louis Berkower, and others in that tradition (conservative reformed and
> presbyterian--not fundamentalist!) is that it is a view synonomous with
> Augustine's. Now all these people, except Berkower, considered
> themselves
> postmillennialists and Boetner wrote a whole book devoted soley to
> Millennialism. Also the early Congregationalists and Presbyterians
> considered
> themselves as Augustinian-type postmillennialists. Okay, now that I
> see how
> your terminology differs from mine, I think we agree on most matters.
> Yes,
> even on how dangerious premillennial views can be.
now things become clear. yes, the post-millennial progressive strain
did appropriate augustine to their cause. and its presence is a
guarantee of serious (if not necessarily augustinian) thinking. i know
him as a 5th cn bishop, theologian, and polemicist, and his influence
on the middle ages. i refer to augustinian views on the millennium
accordingly. it is one of the great mysteries of the faith that early
presbyterians could at once be so millennial and so augustinian.
certainly geneva is a utopian project in the post-millennial mode.
>
> Peace? Truce?
onward. we were never at war.
r
>
> --V. K. Inman
>
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