medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
We are on different pages, it seems. I thought you were making an argument based on
actual manuscript dates (e.g. the oldest fragment of the Gospel of John is usually
dated to the first part of the second century), trying to show that prior to the
emergence of Christian "orthodoxy" in the 4th century, there were lots and lots of
"proto-orthodox" Christian "documents" (which I took to mean "literary texts")
which provide evidence for some sort of historicity and reliability of what came to
be accepted as the canonical gospel traditions. I questioned such an argument.
Now I'm not sure what you are trying to claim. There certainly are NOT hundreds of
copies of Paul's letters to Corinth dating from the 3rd century and earlier. Most
copies come from the 4th century and later, when the establishment of Christian
"orthodoxy" supported by the power of the Christianized Roman state became a major
factor in suppressing alternative Christian views, literature, etc.
Isn't the basic issue the question of what constitutes "original" and/or
"authentic" Christianity in relation to the claims made in the Da Vinci Code? While
I would find it hard to agree with the reconstruction presented in the Code, I have
no difficulty at all in arguing that the evidence suggests that there was
considerable variety of outlook among the earliest followers of Jesus (Paul's
opponents saw themselves as followers of Jesus!) -- including some "gnostic"
inclinations (similar to Platonic and Philonic dualistic views) -- and that on the
basis of the available evidence, it is impossible to know what Yeshua/Jesus thought
or intended (although the time and place make it more likely than not that he had
some sort of eschatological/apocalyptic orientation framed within the multifaceted
available Jewish traditions). At that level of reconstruction, neither the ages nor
the number of Christian manuscripts and texts offer much help, beyond indicating
the presence of variety of outlook.
Bob (with apologies for lecturing!)
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Good day, eh?
>
> Robert Kraft wrote:
> > I don't understand the following claim from "Frank"
>
> If one examines the number of manuscripts
> including correspondence, lectionaries,
> gospel copies, copies of various early
> Christian works, etc. etc. etc., one discovers
> an astonishing number of manuscripts from
> a variety of sources, early collections,
> and depositories. Yes, indeed, hundreds
> are copies of, e.g. the first letter of
> Paul to the church in Corinth. Thus the
> question arises: Should these hundreds of
> instances count hundreds of times or count
> once? If the answer is "Once!" then of
> course the writings of e.g. Plato are more
> extensive than those of the early Christian
> community. Simply pick up a copy of Plato's
> collected works and compare its weight to
> a copy of a New Testatment to realize
> the truth of that judgement. However, many
> historians have difficulty with the idea
> that there is nothing of importance to be
> said for the abundance of copies. I fall
> in the latter class.
>
> Back to my cell again. Keep those film rights
> offers coming in.
>
>
> Regards to all!
>
> Frank
>
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--
Robert A. Kraft, Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania
227 Logan Hall (Philadelphia PA 19104-6304); tel. 215 898-5827
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http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rs/rak/kraft.html
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