medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
O.K, Rochelle, Your comments are very enlightening but they ignore
the Italians who laid the ground for post classical drama a full
hundred years before Shakespeare or any of his friends got around to
doing their work. Also, Chaucer needs an interpreter and an extensive
glossary to be read by anyone who is not an expert like yourself.
Shakespeare uses archaic words, but is fully intelligible to a modern
reader and audiences to whom he is played to this day to audiences
that are definitely not medieval and appreciate the "modern" dilemmas,
especially the will & power. Hamlet, Romeo & Juliet, & Julius Caesar
are reflections of a new, Renaissance mind. Compare them to any of
the Craft cycles and you will see my point. Ditto for his friends,
especially Jonson, who, incidentally, pirated the _Alchemist_ from an
Italian source. Of course, it was the neoclassicists who later
invented the grammar we still sort of use and still doesn't work very
well since it is essentially Latin in concept and English is not a
Latin language. yrs, c. thomas ault
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:21:42 +0200
Rochelle Altman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>culture
>
>Oh, dear, mentioning Shakespeare is as
>hazardous as mentioning "Essenes" or
>"Eponyms" on some lists...
>
>The point is that the line between Medieval
>and Renaissance is tenuous at best,
>particularly in the religious sphere.... and
>this list is devoted to Medieval religion
>and various facets of the subject, no?
>
>If the iconography and the politics of
>religion during E I's reign is more Medieval
>than ""Renaissance" (as the term is generally
>applied), then why not bring an example up
>out here? VK's example was appropriate...
>and that was the point.
>
>This is no place to get into the Shakespeare
>factory, but Ben Jonson's comment that he
>had "small Latin and less Greek" has become
>quite doubtful now that the curriculum of his
>school is known.... what he did not have
>was an Oxford or Cambridge education. He
>just had genius.Of course he wrote in English;
>he was a playwright with a demanding English-
>speaking audience. What was he supposed
>to write in?
>
>No, Shakespeare did not set the standard
>for English use.You need an anchor to
>permit earlier works to be accessible to
>later readers. The KJV was the anchor,
>not Shakespeare. If it were not for the
>KJV, Shakespeare would be as opaque
>today as is Orm. Most of his (constant)
>word play was already opaque by Samuel
>Johnson's day -- and Johnson was better
>than most. The anchor has been generally
>replaced now with a plethora of new
>translations, and the semantic drift is
>increasing. Nor do we have a new anchor.
>
>Incidentally, Chaucer frequently is
>considered the first "modern." So,
>where do we draw the lines anyway?
>
>Cheerfully yours, risa
>
>From: "Cecil T Ault" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 4:01 PM
>Subject: Re: [M-R] saints of the day 30. August
>
>
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
>medieval religion and culture
>>
>> Just because Shakespeare's religious outlook is
>(or may be regarded)
>> as medieval does not make him medieval. He was
>a Renaisannce man like
>> his contemporaries. His writing style as well
>as many of the dramatic
>> sources he used are from Renaissance Italy.
>When at home, his
>> histories are thoroughly contemporary in their
>outlook of England as
>> the greatest place in the world to be,
>especially if one is an
>> Englishman. Some of my teachers considered him
>the first "modern" as
>> he set the standard for English usage. Having
>had small Latin and
>> less Greek, he wrote English. Cheers. yrs, tom
>ault
>>
>> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:19:27 -0400
>> "V. Kerry Inman" <[log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
>> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
>medieval religion and
>> >culture
>> >
>> >Quoting Rochelle Altman
><[log in to unmask]>:
>> >
>> >> > VK, the line between Late Medieval and
>Renaissance
>> >> is
>> >> not as clear as the names bestowed upon them
>make
>> >> it
>> >> appear -- particularly in
>England,.Shakespeare,
>> >> for
>> >> instance, is considered by many to be the
>last and
>> >> greatest
>> >> of the Medieval authors. The religious sphere
>is
>> >> quite
>> >> Medieval in outlook and practice...
>> >>
>> >> Okay!! Makes it more fun. --V. K.
>> >
>
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