Indeed it is not efficient i totally agree
however the national trust no longer supports technology such as
.NET
MSSQL
ACCESS is also being phased out in the National Trust
our base technology is Oracle with open sourced web interface or oracle
based application with web front end
As for terminal services it is not an answer to what we wish to do with
the SMR and is simply not appropriate
Access cannot allow for the sort of things we would wish to do in terms
of users (licience cost for the server system - overall costs - in fact
the support fees for the new system are about the same as the over all
support fees that we have for the present SMR).. but we will have all
but unlimited users from volunteers in their homes ... to students in
universities and to wardens across the country.
The project we are undertaking is not about keeping the existing users
as we are ... simply access is at its limit both in terms of splitting
data ... and allowing edits at multiple seats... it is about achieving
the real potential that the NTSMR has.
We are set on developing a new system that will meet the following
criteria
Does not need to be installed on computers (this is a big no.. no)
Does more for existing resources
Is open access to everyone (internal and external) ... an open resource
to the public, members that allows the 5 million worth resource to be
available to everyone
Is able to live link with such things as the Heritage Networks such as
HEIRNET and any new heritage portals
Has the potential to link to other systems live and cross domain search
such as our internal collections system
Something that can be maintained centrally at one point where data can
be edited at any location
To be innovative in terms of the content and in terms of the application
(allowing the public to tell us their stories etc) and with our
development partner to manage the NTSMR as a national resource
Many thanks
Jason A. Siddall
NTSMR Officer
-----Original Message-----
From: Crispin Flower [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 11:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Public Data Entry :Was The Legendary HER
wrt Jason Siddall's comment about the time he spends visiting his
regional offices...well, running more than 25 separate database/GIS
systems for one organisation will obviously require a lot of support
time. This is clearly not an efficient way of running what should be an
integrated information system.
Our recommendation for anyone running an SMR/HER across distributed
offices is to run the system on a central server, using a remote access
technology like Terminal Services to give thin-client access across wide
area networks or the internet. Depending on the technology employed,
only a web browser or light-weight client application is required on the
end-user PC, but the user still gets the power of full GIS/database
software. This generally gives exceptional performance. Web applications
can be integrated where required, as they are the best solution for
general publication and for allowing public data submissions.
all the best
Crispin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Crispin Flower
exeGesIS SDM Ltd.
Great House Barn
Talgarth
Powys
LD3 0AH
Tel: 01874 713072/711145
Fax: 01874 711156
email: [log in to unmask]
URL: www.esdm.co.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This E-mail and any files transmitted with it are private and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, the E-mail and any
files have been transmitted to you in error and any copying,
distribution or other use of the information contained in them is
strictly prohibited.
Nothing in this E-mail message amounts to a contractual or other legal
commitment on the part of exeGesIS SDM Ltd unless confirmed by a signed
communication.
exeGesIS SDM Ltd will make every effort to keep its network free of
viruses. However, the recipient of this message will need to scan this
message, and any attachments, for viruses, as exeGesIS SDM Ltd can take
no responsibility for any computer virus that might be transferred by
this e-mail.
-----Original Message-----
From: Siddall, Jason [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 26 April 2004 10:23
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Public Data Entry :Was The Legendary HER
hi
Tyler and Nick
hmm there will be both forms of access
full access for students, volunteers etc who are working with us (we do
this now) with pass words of access.. but because of the system (we
cannot have two places editing the same data) we are on we cannot roll
it out to every region
limited public access "tell us your story"
Anyone can write their story .. their significance about a monument or
property. we may require free registration but that will be discussed
with the developer.
on our data model the table records name, date of input (automatic) a
long text field it is linked to monuments or historic property records
this enables us to allow for different levels of access and content
creation
as for extra time needed well as I said before I run around the country
(it takes up two thirds of my time) keeping my users happy and working
... its the only was we can keep the exegesis software going.
The cost of travel about 10,000 a year and the cost of support fees
allow us to have no more than 30 users the new system will be
essentially be limitless and we will be able to roll this out all over
and let people into our resource in all manner of ways.
so I will be able to have more users ... more time can be dedicated to
content creation instead of managing the software.
I really do not see the same problems you do ... I agree they could be
issues but we will be in a far better and sustainable situation than we
have right now
we feel with the myths, legends and historic associations ...and then
with public stories this allows us to really capture the significance of
the historic landscapes... it is the intangible heritage. Which I think
is going to increase in its importance in the coming years.
this all
hope that helps
Cheers
Jason
> To a certain extent, we may also be talking about different shades of
> things, I understood Jason to be suggesting the NTSMR would be online,
> with the public able to add records from there, which struck me as
> problematic, but I don't think that is quite what he is saying (though
> am prepared to be corrected)
Yes, we're singing from the same songsheet.
> On your second point, about a separate data structure, could I be
> devils advocate and suggest this could be achieved by not importing
the
> data at all and merely being aware of it through e.g. HEIR Port??
Yes, of course. I think the idea of stand-alone databases is becoming
increasingly outdated; I would expect that the advent of the HEEP
(Historical
Environment Exchange Protocol) Web Service – part of the FISH Toolkit –
will greatly facilitate this. However, the caveat is that very often
these elements contribute to our understanding of the HE, so we
shouldn't
necessarily divorce them from the record entirely.
> As I said I can see the advantage of using volunteers, and members of
> the public to enter data (and we do), but as Ben has pointed out there
> is a tension between this and the idea of standards, as well as the
> tension between whats needed for DC and what is part of a wider HER. I
> don't see this as an either or proposition though, more a question of
> what we prioritise.
I don't think it is a concern of standards as much as it is a concern of
data quality; the general rule of thumb should be if it helps us better
understand the HE, bring it into the record.
> Also, one of my personal bugbears is duplicated
> effort and the question is why do we need to have copies of records in
> an HER, rather than point at them somewhere else - unless we are going
> to do something with them. And that would fit in with your idea of an
> HER specialist revising/synthesising different data sources to some
sort
> of coherence. The point of issue is what data to we want to
synthesise,
> and to what priority and to what market. In my view our priority
market
> is the other DC staff who primarily use the SMR, IE there needs should
> come first, but that doesn't mean we can't meet those priorities in
ways
> that aren't useful for other users. Just some thoughts
Yes, again the HEEP will facilitate this remote exchange: I would expect
that very soon you will be seeing some of the first machine-to-machine
data transfer, obviating the need for constant export. The practical
incarnation of this will be simple: for example, you might be browsing
a
site in your HER, and the application would automatically query the PAS
database, listing finds discovered nearby. If you have the correct
access
permissions, these finds would be listed on the monument page. The data
is never transferred into your HER. Very handy.
T
--
Dr Tyler Bell
Technical Director
Oxford ArchDigital Ltd.
http://oxarchdigital.com
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________
********************************************************
One tonne of recycled paper (= 100 bin bags) saves 17 trees, 17000
gallons of water and enough energy to heat the average home for 6 months
- RECYCLE MORE -
**********************************************************
confidentiality :-
The National Trust believes in treating information with
care. Because this message and any attachments may
contain information which is confidential, if you have
received it in error please contact us immediately and
do not disclose, copy, use or store it in any way.
viruses :-
It is our policy to check emails for viruses before
sending, but we recommend that you also check the
message and any attachments, as either could contain
viruses which could damage your systems.
charity details :-
The National Trust for Places of Historic Interest or
Natural Beauty. 36 Queen Anne’s Gate London SWIH 9AS
Registered Charity Number 205846
Tel: +44 (0)20 7222 9251
Fax: +44 (0)20 7222 5097
www.nationaltrust.org.uk
********************************************************
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________
********************************************************
One tonne of recycled paper (= 100 bin bags) saves 17 trees, 17000
gallons of water and enough energy to heat the average home for 6 months
- RECYCLE MORE -
**********************************************************
confidentiality :-
The National Trust believes in treating information with
care. Because this message and any attachments may
contain information which is confidential, if you have
received it in error please contact us immediately and
do not disclose, copy, use or store it in any way.
viruses :-
It is our policy to check emails for viruses before
sending, but we recommend that you also check the
message and any attachments, as either could contain
viruses which could damage your systems.
charity details :-
The National Trust for Places of Historic Interest or
Natural Beauty. 36 Queen Anne’s Gate London SWIH 9AS
Registered Charity Number 205846
Tel: +44 (0)20 7222 9251
Fax: +44 (0)20 7222 5097
www.nationaltrust.org.uk
********************************************************
______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________
|