Lawrence, this shameful. I don't agree with Richard's political views at all, as he well knows, but I believe his message was well
meant. He does have a long record of supporting and being in association with avant-garde poets, I DO share his Christian viewpoint,
however, my tack comes from a very urban liberal inner-city Methodist church, to which I and my ex-crack-head disabled girlfriend go
to, because we like it, we sing Zimbawean hymns, how much more right on than that can you get? we're both still semi-alcoholics but
we're getting there, our minister, Jill, thinks we're the stars of the congregation. Richard was sending a message of care to Arni,
bless him, Arni, not trying to score a literary-political point, someone else, who I won't name, had already promised to forward his
post. It's about time people who claim to be poets learn to write human language, I mean in the sense of forgive, and understand. In
recent months I've really seen just how conventional people are, on the on the side with my lass, who being disabled is also, as a
lot of blokes have told me, is a 'sex-bomb', so there for a start you have stereotyped reactions and some of the crap we have had
from people as a result has been appalling, confessing myself a Christian has involved again fixed responses, the amount of times
I've had to explain to people that I don't believe in some of the kinds of evangelical stuff that Richard undoubtedly espouses has
been legion.
I just ended up the night with a father and daughter, Helen and Peter, who go out with each other (for a drink that is!) a mate
called Nick who spent much of the last ten years in psychiatric institutes but has just learnt the reality of other people (on his
own account) and he's really doing good and a bloke called Brian who was on about me to the need for a need for a concerted arts
focus in Leicester. I agree with him entirely. This was just the end, not the whole, of the day and night, it's normal for me, so if
in such an inner-city environment how can such a variety of people, who escape stereotypes, exist? I am only touching on the reality
of it all, so why not accept that Richard, whatever his political views might be genuine in his concern about Arni. I didn't know
that he was banned from this list, btw, I thought he was just under review.
I don't think that's what's happened to Arni is a matter for point scoring.
Best
Dave
David Bircumshaw
Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet
& Painting Without Numbers
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Upton" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Árni Ibsen
I hope he does the same for the souls of all the Iraqis his beloved
president is about to murder
L
----- Original Message -----
From: "david.bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 3:58 PM
Subject: Fw: Re: Árni Ibsen
Richard asked me to forward this:
I send my prayers to the Most Holy Light Absolute for Mr. Ibsen. He
is a great poet and a great soul.
R i c h a r d D i l l o n
David Bircumshaw
Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet
& Painting Without Numbers
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
----- Original Message -----
From: "ELEMENOPE Productions" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "david. bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 12:39 AM
Subject: Fwd: Re: Árni Ibsen
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