Quoting Mike McConnell <[log in to unmask]>:

> I agree with John. Don't get me wrong, I was a die-hard Netscape 4 fan in
> the past, and until recently supported it on our site, but our server logs
> now indicate that we often get fewer external client hits from NS than we
> do for 'wacky' browsers like Netgem (sorry Brian).

It seems clear to me that there is a need to ensure that Web pages are
accessible on new devices in which usage is likely to grow (such as the Netgem
i-player) and this is more important - especially if there are conflicts - than
broken legacy systems where usage is small and declining.

I may be in a minority in using an embedded Linux box to watch the TV (and
listen to the Archers) but I suspect usage of digital TV systems to access Web
resources is likely to grow.  See
 http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue40/web-focus/
for an article about the Netgem i-player.

Note that if, aas is the cae at Oxford, you generate your HTML from a richer
source, then twekaing the HTML and links to CSS files (and even genrating PDF
versions of pages) is a no-brainer.  If you don't do this (and we all know that
Oxford staff have short terms and long holidays so they have more free time
than the rest of us) then you may have to make a policy decision on the
apporach to take.  My view is that the Netcape browser is broken and we
shouldn't waste significant amounts of time creating data to work in broken
applications.   I used to make this point in the past, but then being anti-
Netscape was seen as being pro MS (rather than pro Opera, in my case).  However
as we all know the Firefox rocks, we should all be able all to agree to kill
off the Netscapoe 4 support discssion - hopefully :-)

Brian

PS  I've just viewed
http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/web-focus/site-rolling-demos/universities/
on  my i-Player.  The Aberdeen page seemed OK, as did the Aber page.  However
the Aber home page has some frames-busting code which means that no further
page are displayed.  Rather than discussing CSS support in Netscape 4 I think a
more important issue is whether your Web site, your portal, your VLE, etc. can
be used and is usable in browsers such as this. And, no there are no emulators
available (I asked) - but you can get a box for 65 pounds (half what I paid!).
See

http://www.shop.bt.com/invt/011613

PPS I am not afiliated with BT or Netgem in any way!

> Internally we hope to kill off the last pockets of Netscape usage by having
> modern, standards-compliant pages. In this sense, it is an ADVANTAGE that
> NS renders poorly, as it forces clients to upgrade their systems.
>
> You have to ask, what kind of experience are NS 4.x users having ELSEWHERE
> on the web? Our pages our at least usable in NS 4.x - god help NS 4.x users
> who try to use MSN, or Hotmail, etc.. If you ask me, the UK HEI community
> (or at least users of this list) have bent over backwards to accommodate
> this group for too long. Just say no!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> At 11:41 29/10/2004 +0100, you wrote:
> >I ask myself what's the point of spending time writing for Netscape 4?
> >
> >Can someone justify by more than opinion why it is necessary? I'm quite
> >prepared to accept evidence why I should - but to continue writing for a
> >six year old browser when very few people using computers every day
> >will have heard of Netscape anyway I believe is a waste of time - but
> >that's an opinion. I'm basing my lack of attention to Netscape 4 on the
> >figures that I have been able to obtain - usage in the low decimal
> >percentages
> >
> >John
> >
> >
> >John Colby
> >Lecturer, School of Computing and Information
> >Room F328a, Feeney Building, University of Central England,
> >Franchise Street, Perry Barr, Birmingham B42 2SU
> >Tel: +44 (0) 121 331 6937, Fax +44 (0) 121 331 6281, Mobile: 07795 215
> >912
>
>
> ------------
> Mike McConnell
> Web Team Manager
> University of Aberdeen
>
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.abdn.ac.uk/web/
>
> Directorate of Information Systems and Services
> Edward Wright Building
> Dunbar Street
> Aberdeen
> AB 24 3UF
> Tel: +44 (0)1224 27 2602
> Fax: +44 (0)1224 27 3372


--
Brian Kelly
UKOLN
University of Bath
BATH
BA2 7AY