Tws y mutung, thrus y conffyrens.
Hen Ddihareb
Drueni fod dim cyflwr lleoliadol fel yn y Lladin, inni gael hepgor
rhagddodiaid yn gyfangwbl. (ON Pwy sy'n cofio'r olygfa yn 'Monty Python's
Life of Brian' lle mae John Cleese yn cywiro slogan y gwron?)
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: Berwyn Jones [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 31 July 2003 12:03
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: in / at the meeting
Sylwadau gan Leo McNeir i gychwyn:
"I think I need to ponder on this. I'm sure there are rules, but I don't
think they are necessarily absolutes. For example, the Americans say 'on the
weekend', compared with our 'at the weekend'.
"For the Anglesey example that you quoted, I believe it is possible to say
'in' or -- because it is an island -- 'on' Anglesey.
"The 'in / at' Bangor example raises another point because 'at Bangor' is
essentially a shorthand for 'at the University of Bangor'. You could be in
Sydney Harbour and accurately reply to a question relating to your
university place by saying 'I'm at Bangor'.
"Much of this uncertainty -- or lack of dogmatic certainty -- seems to my
mind to stem from the mongrel nature of the English language. We are
susceptible to possibilities arising from different root languages. The
French would normally say 'à Noirmoutier', but could also say 'on a une
maison sur l'île de Noirmoutier'. The Germans similarly could say 'in
Noirmoutier' or 'wir haben ein Haus auf der Insel Noirmoutier'. This opens
up a dual approach to English which could then be shortened to produce
different ways of expressing the same idea.
"It's just a guess, but so much seems to stem from the origins of English.
It's a reflection of the 47 possible translations for 'pennu', the English
language having the biggest vocabulary of any known language largely because
it is not 'pure'.
"I hope these reflections are helpful."
O ran 'at/in the meeting', y teimlad sydd gen i yw mai 'at a/the meeting'
yw'r ymadrodd arferol wrth so^n am gyfarfod sydd wedi bod ond bod y Saesneg
weithiau'n defnyddio 'in' i olygu 'during'.
Pe ca^i rhywun sydd mewn cyfarfod alwad ffo^n, gallai ddweud 'I'm in a
meeting' neu 'I'm at a meeting'. Wela i ddim fod gwahaniaeth rhwng y ddau
yna. Mae'n debyg, gyda llaw, mai'r arfer yn yr hen Swyddfa Gymreig oedd
dweud 'I'm at/in a meeting' pan oedd dau mewn cyfarfod ond 'I'm in
conference' os byddai tri neu ragor yn cyfarfod ...!
Berwyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "John D Williams" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "Berwyn Prys Jones" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:32 AM
Subject: in / at the meeting
> Mae'n na rai sy'n mynnu mai 'at the meeting' sy'n gywir, er bod 'in the
> meeting' yn swnio'n iawn hefyd imi. Unrhyw sylwadau gan Berwyn a Tim os
> gwelwch yn dda - mae'n ymadrodd sy'n codi o hyd ac o hyd wrth gyfieithu
> i'r Bwrdd Llywodraethwyr ac i'r isbwyllgorau.
>
> Diolch.
>
> John.
>
>
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