Thank you for this insightful post if I had read that a little erlier I
wouldn't have sent the rather rude one about Colin, I think I'll just stop
reading his emails as they drive me to exasperation.
The fact is I don't have a lot of tolerance for people who support and quote
reserch produced by the eliminate autism brigade. I am not against genetic
reserch merely aginst that motivated by desire to produce "perfect"
children.
I am also bothered by the one track approach that tries to say that one
particular factor causes all autism regardless, and insists that all that
need be done to eliminate autism is attend to factor x y z or whatever. I
also tend to get annoyed by people who lay the blame for every misfortune
that ever comes there way on autism or whatever else as we live in a complex
society and people behave in varios ways, and although we are sometimes hard
to get along with and misunderstood, there is also such a thing as
deliberate provocation, and sometimes one finds oneself in situation s where
one needs to acknowledge one has overreacted even if there was provocation.
Sometimes one needs to be less forceful than ones opponent and win an
argument by stealth not brute force.
I think that is why Colin is always finding himself in these situations
where he seems to want to ivoke the wrath of the Unitited Nations because he
was ejected from a meeting.
I have been ejected from meetings and lernt through the process, when is the
right time to go, when to make a protest and withdraw, or when to try and
suppress ones indignation in order to stay long enough and here things.
I think Colin you need to take advice from seasoned campaigners and analyse
situations a bit more before you go over the top.
Larry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Disability-Research Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mitzi Waltz
> Sent: 23 July 2003 09:49
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Research clears MMR with Autism (NOT)
>
>
> Hi there:
> I'm not Larry, but I am an "autism researcher" of
> sorts. Laurence hits the nail on the head in the post
> below: if you take all the evidence as a whole, a few
> things about autistic spectrum disorders become very
> clear:
> 1. There are currently many different conditions
> grouped together under the umbrella of ASDs. One
> specialist I interviewed a couple of years ago
> compared the current situation vis a vis autism to
> where epilepsy was at the beginning of his career 40
> years ago: at that time a few varients of epilepsy
> had been identified, but the "treatments" were one
> size fits all and not very effective for most. Forty
> years on, more variants have been teased out, and
> treatment is better targeted. We are nowhere near
> that with autism. Which, incidentally, means that
> pretty much all treatment studies are fatally flawed.
> 2. The genetic research has identified many genes
> that are associated with autism. What it hasn't done
> (other than a couple of very small and rather
> overlooked studies) is look at what exactly those
> genes do. Genes code for proteins, which inturn do
> something in the body. Some of the genes associated
> with autism are involved with the immune system. One
> of them (the RELN mutation) is involved with heavy
> metal metabolism and movement disorders. Other than
> Fragile X Syndrome, Rett Syndrome, Angelman Syndrome,
> and Prader-Willi Syndrome--four "genetic disorders"
> that inclde autistic characteristics--there is no
> suggestion that any combination of genes necessarily
> causes autism. Even with those 4 the picture is not
> black and white: have this gene, have autistic
> symptoms. It looks much more like a variety of
> different combinations create more or less
> susceptibility to more or less severe autistic
> symptoms. At least some of these genetic differences
> are present in about 1 in every 100 people, with a
> higher prevalance of several genetic differences in
> males. Anytime a genetic difference is that common,
> one has to assume it brings some benefits as well as
> detriments, and this appears to be the case with many
> of the genetic differences associated with autism so
> far.
> 3. Which brings us to environmental factors.
> Infectious links are actually quite well documented.
> My own research goes back to the Victorian era,
> before the condition was named and defined, when such
> symptoms were occasionaly seen and documented after
> infectious illness. One of the earliest biomed
> studies identified a rise in autism following the
> last major measles and mumps epidemics in the the US
> (early '60s.) Paul Shattock's data (and that of
> others) includes several pre-vaccination cases of
> children who developed autistic symptoms following
> infection with natural measles. Autistic symptoms
> following infectious encephalopathies are known,
> documented, and have been financially compensated for
> in several countries. Vaccinations--the previous info
> indicates that there's plausible reason to believe
> they could be a factor, perhaps due to one or more
> genetic differences. Add a mercury-based preservative
> and a possible genetic difference that prevents the
> body from excreting the mercury properly, and you add
> another danger sign. Other possible environmental
> factors include organophosphate pesticides. There may
> be quite a few things that people with certain
> genetic inheritances react to differently. To give an
> example, not every woman who took thalidomide during
> pregnancy gave birth to a child with the
> characteristic birth defects associated with that
> drug. And of those infants who *were* affected by
> thalidomide exposure, only some had autistic symptoms
> in addition to physical differences (some of you
> might not know that thalidomide exposure is one of
> the other known causes of autism--more studies from
> the early '60s.)
> Basicaly, Brent Taylor doesn't want to know, and
> neither do some of the other researchers. I could say
> a few things I've heard about Taylor's reasons, but
> perhaps they are best left unsaid...
> What I found most interesting about Taylor's latest
> study is that he no longer seems to be disputing that
> the number of cases has risen dramatically, only the
> reasons for the rise (i.e., better diagnosis or
> different etiology).
> In my opinion, more biomedical research is needed,
> but it needs to be dramatically different research.
> The current genetic studies seem to be targeted at
> coming up with a prenatal test for autism--so we can
> "eliminate" these "defectives" a la Down Syndrome. I
> find that reprehensible. What we need to do is find
> out what these genes actually do, and see what the
> environmental triggers are that make them do things
> that may be detrimental to the well-being of people
> who inherit them. We also need to do studies that
> investigate real people on the autistic spectrum. So
> far, Taylor and almost all other biomed researchers
> are looking at numbers, not individuals. For a
> variety of reasons, including the crucial one I noted
> in point 1 above, this approach is not likely to do
> anything other than provide dubious evidence for
> political point-making.
>
> PS to Laurence: you might want to check out the work
> of the late Dr. Reed Warren, and the current work of
> V.J. Singh re: multifactorial etiology. I can give
> you exact refs if needed.
>
> -- Mitzi Waltz
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Laurence Bathurst <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 1:19 am
> Subject: Re: Research clears MMR with Autism....
> What's the future now?
>
> > Hello Larry
> >
> > In relation to your claim of knowledge of the heriditary nature of
> > Autismwhich I am not disputing, do you know if there has been any
> > evidence of
> > genetic markers? Also, are there any thoughts on multifactorial and or
> > polygenic "causes" for Autism? For example, a genetic predisposition
> > (involving one or many or fragments of genes) alongside environmental
> > factors including vaccination?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Laurence Bathurst
> > School of Occupation and Leisure Sciences
> > Faculty of Health Sciences
> > University of Sydney
> >
> > PO Box 170
> > Lidcombe NSW 1825
> > Australia
> >
> > Please use home phone or mobile number
> > Home Ph: 61 2 9818 2050
> > Mobile Ph: 0407 069 441
> >
> > Email: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Arnold" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: Research clears MMR with Autism.... What's the future
> > now?
> >
> > | I happen to know that autism is hereditary, not a conspiracy
> > |
> > | In the United states there is a high degree of irrationalism
> > driven by the
> > | cultural necessity in that society of blaming someone and then
> > trying to
> > get
> > | compensation.
> > |
> > | Because a case is won in court does not mean that a scientific
> > fact has
> > been
> > | established, else we would still be holiding to the vaticans
> > decisionswith
> > | regard to Galileo.
> > |
> > | I think we would be wasting valuable money, wasting valuable
> > scientists,if
> > | we were not spending the money on providing services for autism
> > in all its
> > | manifestations and levels.
> > |
> > | Some people though, think in headlines and slogans, read a piece of
> > reserch
> > | but do not criticically evaluate it and masss hysteria results.
> > |
> > | I too have aspergers, but I do not believe one half of what Colin
> > does,nor
> > | do I go about my life finding things to condemn all the time even
> > if it
> > | appears that way.
> > |
> > | Larry
> > |
> > | > -----Original Message-----
> > | > From: The Disability-Research Discussion List
> > | > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of ColRevs
> > | > Sent: 22 July 2003 23:36
> > | > To: [log in to unmask]
> > | > Subject: Research clears MMR with Autism.... What's the future
> > now?| >
> > | >
> > | > Research clears MMR with Autism; What the future now?... I
> > would like to
> > | > hear your views... See link to BBC news-story at:-
> > | > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1808826.stm ...
> > | >
> > | > 'Professor Brent Taylor of the Royal Free who led the research
> > | > told BBC News
> > | > Online: "There is no evidence'....
> > | >
> > | > What are your thoughts and viewpoints? send them to myself or
> > send your
> > | > comments to Paul Shattock, Autism Research Unit, University of
> > | > Sunderland....
> > | >
> > | > What about the Californian Study, USA, being carried-out on the
> > | > environmental-effects of the causes of Autism... Should 'we' in
> > the U.K.
> > | > ignore this stud?
> > | >
> > | > I believe that a U.K study should now be carried-out... Does
> > anyoneagree?
> > | >
> > | > Please forward to other forums, groups and individuals within your
> > network
> > | > for their urgent comments and viewpoints, in which needs to be
> > researchin
> > | > an open-dialogue from a qualitative 'real-people's experiences
> > of what
> > | > people's views are on this research and where should research
> > go in the
> > | > future.
> > | >
> > | > Regards
> > | >
> > | > Colin Revell, Hull, England and a recent diagnosed adult with
> > Aspergers| > Syndrome
> > | >
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