actually probably not that recently since it was in place when I arrived in
October 2001, but Jane Fothergill's negotiated with Trust management and
achieved this with the BMAs help, it has persisted since despite raised
eyebrows from management.  R

Ruth Brown
Consultant in Emergency Medicine
0207 886 6574


-----Original Message-----
From: Harrison [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 19 June 2003 19:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fixed sessions out of hours


Interesting! How recently Ruth?
Jeremy Harrison

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brown, Ruth" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: Fixed sessions out of hours


> Recently I discussed this with the BMA and was advised that we should
count
> time between 5-midnight as double time and time after or weekends at
triple
> time.
> we are fortunate here that the late shifts we do are recognised  by the
> trust as double time and we can either choose to have an extra half day
off,
> or get paid an extra session.
> Ruth
>
> Ruth Brown
> Consultant in Emergency Medicine
> 0207 886 6574
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harrison Jeremy Dr. (RJC) ACCIDENT & EMERGENCY - SwarkHosp-TR
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 18 June 2003 17:05
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Fixed sessions out of hours
>
>
> Thanks for that Andrew. It is a shame that the previous
> incumbents in the BMA consultants committee did not share your mastery of
> this subject. One can only hope that the new lot do, though sadly there
are
> a few hangers on tainted by their advocacy of the last deal who have put
> their personal ambition before the greater good. (Some of these not a
> million miles away from where I type this, as you know.) Also a shame that
> one does not feel that one's corner is being defended by another great
> national organisation that I send a few hundred quid to each year.
Goodness!
> I'm starting to sound like DM! (Nowhere near the quality though!)
> Apologies for politics on the acad list to those offended.
> Jeremy Harrison
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Hobart [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 18 June 2003 11:38
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Fixed sessions out of hours
>
>
> In the NHS the current contract is not as many suppose based upon 11
> sessions but is for a minimum of 10 sessions. There is no maximum number
> of sessions for full time or maximum part time consultants.
>
> The 11 sessions is an assumption based upon the fact that those who want
> to do unlimited private practice are fined one eleventh of their salary
> for the "privilege".
>
> As Adrian says the concept of fixed sessions is harder to define for A&E
> but custom and practice is that shopfloor sessions are fixed sessions
> and admin sessions are flexible.
> A consultant should normally have between 5 and 7 fixed sessions. Five
> with heavy other commitments such as on call and seven with light other
> commitments.
> A session is technically called a notional half day and consists of a
> period of 3.5 hours worked flexibly.
> So Adrian's 8 hour day could reasonably be two NHDs of fixed commitments
> if he takes a lunch break or does some admin amongst his shopfloor work.
> Other departments strictly count a time of 7 hours scheduled to cover
> the shopfloor as two NHDs.
> In terms of out of hours I would strongly advise against anyone counting
> sessions as Adrian does! Most department I know of do not allow for any
> of the antisocial time to be discounted - every 3.5 hours = 1 session.
> In his 4pm to Midnight shift he is on duty for 8 hours of which 7 hours
> is antisocial (in generally accepted terms). Regardless of whether the
> antisocial time counts as extra value this is more than two sessions
> worth.
>
> The second and perhaps more important thing is the averaging of
> weekends. If you do 1 in 4 weekends but have to cover for colleagues
> leave or to swap to allow your own leave then this equates to more than
> 1 in 4. The way to allow for this is to average the hours eg 16/4 = 4,
> but then to multiply by the number of weeks in the year (52) and divide
> by the number of weeks NOT on any sort of leave (42). The 42 arises by
> deduction 6 weeks for Annual Leave, 2 weeks (10 days) for Bank Holidays
> or lieu days and 2 weeks for Study Leave. SO 16/4 x 52/42 = 4.95
> This is 1.4 NHDs
>
> So by my reckoning Adrian is doing 3.7 sessions fixed of antisocial
> hours plus his 3 sessions of normal working hours fixed sessions. This
> makes nearly 7 fixed sessions with compensation.
>
> Around the country compensation is variously given as -
> 1. Nothing
> 2. Shorter period of time out of hours counts as a session eg 2.5 hours
> = 1 session
> 3. Reduced number of fixed sessions eg 5 fixed sessions in total
> 4. Sessions counting out of hours as 1.5 or even 2 sessions (This is the
> same as 2 but some managers are more comfortable with one form of words
> than another)
> 5. More money - This is very rare!
>
> The biggest difficulty with anything other than 5 is that whilst the
> clinical commitment may be capped so called time off can be very
> difficult to take. Meetings with managers and other clinicians are
> usually scheduled during the day and often take up more time than that
> nominally allocated to flexible sessions.
>
> I agree with Adrian however that a National agreement on the added value
> of these sessions is the best way forwards for those of us who choose to
> work them.
>
> Andrew Hobart
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Accident and Emergency Academic List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Adrian Fogarty
> Sent: 18 June 2003 05:43
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Fixed sessions out of hours
>
> As the strict definition of "fixed session" does not really apply to
> A&E,
> James, we have tended to interpret our "fixed" sessions as those where
> we
> must be on the shop floor (or thereabouts!). This essentially boils down
> to
> our resident evenings and weekends together with one or two of our
> standard
> days each week.
>
> As an example, I do every Monday evening from 4pm to 12mn, and this
> counts
> as (roughly) 2 sessions. I don't get any specific recompense for the
> lateness of the shift (but see later).
>
> I do three other standard day shifts, (Wed, Thur and Fri) each around 8
> hours per day which equates (roughly) to 2 sessions per day. [So that's
> 8
> sessions so far.]
>
> I also do one weekend a month, which is nominally 8 hours Sat and 8
> hours
> Sun, although it's usually hard to restrict it to only 8 hours at the
> moment, but will be easier as new middle-grades come on board. This
> therefore equates to (roughly) 4 sessions per weekend, and, averaged
> over a
> month, this equates to 1 session per week. [So that's 9 sessions so
> far.]
>
> Then we add on 1 session for on-call from home, partly to cover after
> our
> "resident shifts" (when we are rarely called back), and partly to cover
> our
> registrars (which doesn't often happen now, and will decrease further
> when
> our 4th consultant starts next month, and rarely called anyway!).
>
> Finally we add on 1 session to compensate for antisocial hours, i.e.
> late
> shifts and weekends. [So that's 11 sessions in total.]
>
> We count the evening as 2 fixed, and the weekend as 1 fixed. We also
> count
> one-and-a-half of my standard 3 days as fixed, so that's 3 fixed
> sessions
> (the non-fixed sessions tend to be admin etc). So the total comes out at
> 6
> fixed sessions out of a possible 11 sessions.
>
> I hope this makes sense. I'm sure some of you might suggest that we
> could
> get more time off in-lieu for our evenings and weekends, but I'm eagerly
> awaiting BMA negotiations on that point! And perhaps we don't claim
> enough
> sessions for our on-call from home, but we work a system where we are
> extremely rarely called from home, as there's generally someone "senior"
> actually in the department for the vast majority of the time.
>
> Adrian Fogarty
> A&E Consultant
> Royal Free Hospital
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "BINCHY Dr J, A&E Consultant"
> Subject: Fixed sessions out of hours
>
> Any consultants out there doing fixed clinical sessions in the evenings
> or
> at weekends?
> If yes what arrangements have you made with your trusts regarding extra
> payments or compensatory time off?
> I've been tasked by my local LNC  to see what arrangements are operating
> around the country. If you'd like to discuss this off site I'm at
>
> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>
> James Binchy
>
>
> This email has been scanned for viruses by NAI AVD however we are unable
to
> accept responsibility for any damage caused by the contents.
> The opinions expressed in this email represent the views of the sender,
not
> South Warwickshire General Hospitals NHS Trust unless explicitly stated.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender.
>