medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I guess the subtext of my enquiry was to see if there was some sort of
connection between spiders and superstitous/religious beliefs. It doens't
symbolise anything in particular does it?
Rob Howe.
>From: Katherine French <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [M-R] Lethal spiders (Was: miracle motifs-spiders & steaks)
>Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 08:58:22 -0500
>
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>spider bits might indeed be deadly if the person bitten is not particularly
>healthy or well nourished--probably a status shared by many medieval folks.
>
>on a completely different topic--and maybe jo anne mcnamara will know--do
>we have any sense for any particular time in the middle ages of the
>percentage of men and women in monastic life. i know there are some stats
>for numbers of priests in medieval england (although don't remember them).
>
>
>kit french
>At 07:50 AM 3/14/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>>
>>Equating spiders with toxicity is not the same as assuming that they are
>>lethal. Probably all spiders are toxic to some degree, but the degree of
>>toxicity involved in a given spider bite is usually rather small. There
>>are, however, a few highly toxic spiders in Europe: that they are usually
>>not encountered by humans may account for the lack of concern on this
>>score by most Europeans but it does not render bites administered by these
>>species any less painful and worrisome to those humans who do experience
>>them.
>>
>>Probably the best known poisonous spider in southern Europe is the
>>malmignatte (Fr.; in Italian, malmignatta), Latrodectus tredecimguttatus.
>>A close relative of the American spider called Black Widow, it also bears
>>that name in Spain (Viuda Negra). Its bites can cause partial paralysis
>>and in exceptional cases perhaps death. The ancient Greek writer Aelian
>>describes in his _Historia animalium_ an arachnid called the "grape
>>spider" that is sometimes thought to be this species and whose bite he
>>calls instantly lethal. That's certainly an exaggeration (assuming that
>>Aelian's spider in question is not wholly fictitious). But such
>>exaggerations have the beneficial effect of securing avoidance on the part
>>of humans who otherwise would experience painful bites. I would look for
>>the origins of such folklore in precisely this sort of cautionary
>>formulation.
>>
>>Another poisonous spider of Europe is the Mediterranean recluse
>>(Loxosceles rufescens), a close relative of the Brown recluse and now
>>found in the U.S. as well. See
>>http://www.uark.edu/depts/entomolo/museum/browrec.html
>>
>>Best,
>>John Dillon
>>
>>
>>On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 09:21:17 +0000
>> Rob Howe <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>culture
>> >
>> >I can't contribute myself to this fascinating discussion but it has
>>prompted
>> >a question in my head that someone may be able to answer:
>> >
>> >I notice that the medieval spider trope used in the examples given to
>>the
>> >list so far equates spiders with toxicity. Now, I know _some_ spiders
>>are
>> >venemous (although are there any of these lethal spiders in Europe at
>> >all???), but it is not an overiding concern of most Europeans nowadays
>>to
>> >worry about dying from spider bites.
>> >
>> >Where did this rather paranoid equation between spiders and
>> >lethality/death/toxicity come from?
>> >
>> >Thanks if anyone knows the history to this folklore.
>> >
>> >Rob Howe.
>> >
>>
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