Hi Kari
On Monday, August 18, 2003, at 01:25 PM, Kari-Hans Kommonen wrote:
> I too am surprised -- I wonder if I understand you correctly, is it
> that in your original post you would use the word 'judgement' in the
> sense of an outcome, a product of a process?
>
I believe that a judgment is made visible by an action. The processes
behind judgments are complex and difficult to discern although folks
are trying, hoping to help create a form of artificial intelligence
that can replace human judgment.
> I have always (in context of design) thought of it more as a key part
> of the design process, that a designer has to have enough insight and
> understanding to be able to practice 'good judgement', because there
> are usually no 'objective' criteria or 'knowledge' that can relieve
> the designer from that responsibility of subjective judgement.
>
I agree with you. I guess I was not clear that the first form of
knowledge I mentioned in my original post is associated with
decision-making (decision-maker) and the second kind is knowledge
associated with judgment (judgment maker). There are many things that
influence judgment—experience, character, intuition etc. that are not
so important in formal decision making.
> I find that kind of 'judgement' different from the one you talk about
> - it is not an outcome, and does not seem automatically easy to
> communicate.
>
Yes I agree. I just did a bad job communicating the idea in the first
place.
> You seem to be talking about a product of a 'judging process'?
Nope
Regards
Harold
>
> best, kh
>
>
> At 09:16 -0700 18.8.2003, Harold Nelson wrote:
>> Terry
>>
>> There is a related idea concerning judgment that Horst Rittel
>> proposed.
>> Since any rational decision-making process increases options rather
>> than reduces options, Horst said that every decision-making process
>> was
>> terminated by an "off hand judgment" leaving one option for further
>> consideration. In other words it leads to an opinion or 'expert
>> opinion'. This is demonstrated by the many conflicting expert opinions
>> that emerge in complex cases. An interesting counterpoint to this is
>> the emergent popularity of "naturalistic decision making" where
>> judgment is treated as a process that can be described and explained
>> scientifically. One of the intentions of course is to create expert
>> systems that can make judgments in place of humans. I suspect that
>> judgment and decision-making are distinct processes and that one is
>> not
>> a subset of the other. But I also believe they are quite interrelated
>> systemically.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Harold
>>
>>
>> On Monday, August 18, 2003, at 04:43 AM, Terence Love wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Harold,
>>>
>>> Drat! I thought this one at least was straightforward. I can see
>>> where you are going with your approach. It aligns with the idea that
>>> 'judgements' as in Law are recorded and hence public information
>>> 'objects' (no pun intended), and this contrasts with
>>> 'decision-making'
>>> as a human process.
>>>
>>> An alternative, which is the direction I had been following has
>>> 'judgement' as a distinctly human element of decision making. ('a
>>> mental act or attitude of decision by which the process of
>>> observation, comparison and rationcination is terminated' as put in a
>>> rather old fashioned way by Webster Comprehensive Encyclopedic
>>> Edition
>>> (1986)). Thus, from this perspective decision-making is a broader
>>> process that can include all sorts of activities like informationa
>>> gathering, analysis, discussion, lobbying, reflection etc. but in the
>>> limit, it requires a particularly unique human internal process
>>> involving reflexive activity between imagogenic, emotional, feeling
>>> and selfconscious processes that result in a preference for a
>>> particular outcome as a result of individuals' bodies feeling better
>>> or worse. This is a pretty unique biological process as it creates a
>>> real and releatively reliable singular outcome from reflecting on
>>> situations that may involve complex objects, relationships, contexts,
>>> perspectives - physical, social and historical. This is a 'holy
>>> grail' of optimisation models such as multicriteria, weighting
>>> methods. If the word 'judgement' is not used for this human activity
>>> that contributes to decision-making (and it is fairly standard in
>>> psychological/cognitive analyses) then we need some other word that
>>> is at least as good. Any ideas?
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Terry
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Harold Nelson
>>> Sent: 18/08/2003 12:33 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Judgment and Decision-making
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Lubomir et al
>>>
>>> At present I am working on a project developing a course on judgment
>>> and decision making for a graduate program in Strategic Planning for
>>> Critical Infrastructures. The distinction I make between judgment and
>>> decision making is based on the work I am doing with Erik Stolterman.
>>> It is based on the understanding that these two distinctions
>>> represent
>>> two types of knowledge. The first type is a form of knowledge that
>>> can
>>> be separated from the decision maker, has application to other
>>> situations, can be communicated to other decision makers, can be
>>> stored
>>> in information systems etc. The second type of knowledge cannot be
>>> separated from the knower and has no instrumental value outside of
>>> the
>>> situation for which it was produced and is only revealed through the
>>> actions of the judgment maker. Learning how to make good judgments
>>> then
>>> becomes a very different enterprise from learning to make good
>>> decisions.
>>>
>>> Harold
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Harold G. Nelson, Ph.D., M. Arch.
>> President; Advanced Design Institute
>> www.advanceddesign.org
>> Past-President; International Society for Systems Science
>> www.isss.org
>> Affiliated faculty, Engineering, U. Wash.
>
>
Harold G. Nelson, Ph.D., M. Arch.
President; Advanced Design Institute
www.advanceddesign.org
Past-President; International Society for Systems Science
www.isss.org
Affiliated faculty, Engineering, U. Wash.
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