What is wrong to reffering to it as "cinema." It would only be different
from the cinema because it does not use film? A filmmaker using the
cinema like music would indeed be very powerful but i dont think that
moving in this direction would neccesitate moving in a direction other
than the cinema or film - wether it is digital or not. Have you seen DJ
Spooky's video work? Maybe this is something we can consider? I dont
think i want to get away from the cinema i find lots of possibilities
within that realm - there is a power of synthesis, which would relate to
my ideas of a "collage aesthetic" - an ability to to synthesize.
time is coincidental to all things and a point in which connections can
be made. but music does not merely involve sound - sound is its essence
it is its root it is what makes it music. It is the sound that enables
it to be in a realm of time.
to me this all seems to be a problem of language and not necessarily
views. (?)
James
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>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 21:01:14 GMT
>From: "Mark O'Connell" <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: "Film-Philosophy Salon" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: music-moving pictures
>
>Susanna
>
>I've read your post three times now and I'm still not sure if you're
>agreeing with me, disagreeing with me, or just expanding the subject.
>
>>
>>Time [in it's relativity and subjectivity] is a primary principle in
forming
>>music; along with tonality, structure, text, concept, intention,
moment,
>>theory, enduring spaces/structures for performance, social pretext,
>>imagination, and even on occasion, free will.
>
>I wasn't trying to say that music is somehow like, one dimensional,
that
>time is the only thing
>that defines it. I was trying to point out that time is essential to
its
>existence.
>
>>
>>The background *noise* of the universe could be considered music, and
it
>>would be hard to locate any entity less subject to time as you or I
might
>>conceive of...
>
>You mean radiation? I don't think the term "noise" in this case
actually
>refers to any kind of sound (I guess that's why you put the word
between
>asterisks?), though I guess it could be converted into sound, like
white
>noise. I don't know that I'd consider this music. I'd probably call it
>noise, not because of any aesthetic deficiency, but because I
understand
>music to be the result of an intention, it's something we make, even if
we
>make it by just finding it. Just a definition thing....
>
>
>> Music [sound images] can be easily
>>understood to be even more elastic than visuals.
>
>I have no idea what this means. What are sound images?
>
>
>
>and James,
>
>
>>yeah i think a filmmaker using images the way a musician uses notes
is
>>very interesting and powerful yet it still remains in the realm of
>>cinema and is fundamentally different at its base.
>
>I wonder if cinema is even the right term? Is cinema the proper term
to
>apply if there's no film involved? If you're manipulating sound and
image
>all as digital information? If you were optimistic you could think of
these
>new circumstances as an opportunity to get away from cinema and a lot
of
>what that term implies, not because it's bad, but just to do something
>else.
>
>
>>I think that music is
>>essentially different and communicates differently at its base. when
a
>>piece of music comes into a film it brings along with it its own
power,
>>its own way of communication. music is sound based! - what would
music
>>be without sound?
>
>Of course music involves sound! By trying to point out the essential
>connection between music and time I in no way meant to suggest that
aspects
>that you and Susanna talk about aren't there or are unimportant.
>
>>time captures the sound within this particular realm.
>>i would also think that if you suppose that music is time based,
>>everything would be time based?
>
>Everything is a pretty big subject! My emphasis on time is practical,
has
>to do with the mechanics of constructing a composition, rhythm,
dynamics,
>tension, release, blah blah blah...
>
>
>> Yet, youre point concerning the cinema
>>working like music is very good, and is something that i am very
>>interested in exploring on the basis of a "collage aesthetic." Here i
am
>>thinking about a collage form in art i.e. synthetic cubism,
surrealism,
>>dada, sampling in hip hop - dj shadow & dj spooky... and with found
>>footage cinema Martin Arnold, Craig Baldwin, Bruce Conner...
>
>
>These are interesting people that you mention, and I like the collage
thing
>a lot, but I don't think
>collage is essential to what I was suggesting.
>
>
>
>Mark O'Connell
>[log in to unmask]
>www.markoconnell.org
>
>
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