Thanks for all the responses. I've assembled and anonymised them to
protect the honest.
This may well have saved us some expensive mistakes.
This is a great community to work in, and the mailgroup is a great
technology for this purpose.
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Kay [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 08 May 2003 12:03 To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Report printers: advice please
We are thinking about laser printers for laboratory reports. Does
anyone have any good or bad experiences they would like to share?
... and here are the answers...
-----Original Message-----
We have a Kyocera Ecosys FS-9100 DN. It has multiple bins to take A4
paper (many thousands of sheets and an output bin stacker which takes
the paper output as an optional add-on. It is networked so available
for general use as well as being the report printer for the department.
It appears to run well - we have had it for about a year - with the
very occasional paper blockage. We used to have a Canon before that (at
vast expense and similar specification) which we have junked due to it
being so unreliable - it also had a tortuous paper path which meant it
was often blocked.
-----Original Message-----
our lexmark ones seem to cost a lot in repairs, and we have had poor
experiences with trying to get them fixed.
-----Original Message-----
I have seen the introduction of LASER printing both at xxxx and at
yyyy. Both sites use Telepath.
At xxxx, an intermediary company such as zzzz was used to set up
templates. They take ownership of the system which formats data from
the laboratory computer. The printers were Lexmark.
In yyyy, on the advice of aaaa who run bbbb, I set up the formats
directly on bbbb. I much prefer this system. It means that we are not
reliant on another company if we need to make changes. we also use a
Lexmark printer here. bbbb did mention a case of the company losing all
formats for a hospital, who were left in the lurch after a system
problem.
In practice, setting up the report formats myself and getting in the
external company took as long.
In both sites, we continued to use pre-printed (green-ink) stationery.
If you wish to use blank paper and print on headers etc yourself, eg,
if you wish a printer to switch between biochemistry, haematology etc,
then the intermediary company software is the easier route.
-----Original Message-----
they are brilliant - talk to xxxx
-----Original Message-----
I dare not ask why you should want to print. The GPs and hospital users
here are trying to stop us from filling up the hospital with paper as
well as the electronic reports ! We use Lexmark Optras with 3 (? 500)
sheet bins for the lab reports as well as lots of HP network printers
on our Telepath 2000 system. We have 2 report printers each in
Chemistry and Haematology, 1 each in Micro and Transfusion. One each
Haematology, Micro and Biochem printers are in the main office for
central printing. Others are in the labs for odd jobs (e.g. we generate
a report as a send away request form) and back up. Reports an odd size
of paper, narrower than A5, to fit on the A4 size mount sheets in the
patient notes but micro also print graphical cumulative reports on A4.
The print load (sheets/month) is within the specs but they are not that
reliable. Routine cleaning and problem solving is simple done by the
office staff (MLAs) with back up from the department specialist. It has
been really essential to have the multi bins so that any printer can do
any departments printing. They have to be regarded as semi disposable.
We have replaced 2 in 5 years.
-----Original Message-----
We switched to laser printers about 10 years ago
For:
Quieter, you can hear the phone ring and hold a conversation
Quicker
Legible print out
Cheap paper
No printing on the perforations
Against ?
Why hasn't everyone switched already
-----Original Message-----
I have been using them for 10 years + so here are some comments:
I assume you will be using an A5 or smaller format. If it is smaller
than A5 or is a custom size to fit into LG envelopes or shingle sheets
then your options are limited. You need a make which has variable
format paper trays, and preferably ones which keep the paper centered
or you run the risk of poor feeding of small sheets and premature wear
on the rollers.
I have only ever used Postscript so my experience is further limited.
After xxxx was formed the lab here used Kyocera printers - they looked
promising with good paper handling if the bulk feeders were purchased.
However, the software was terrible - a Postscript clone which never
worked well - and they have not proved as robust in practice as the
looks would suggest.
I have found Xerox mono printers to be excellent - in particular the
DocuPrint N2125. It is very well made, has deep (550 sheet) paper trays
which are continuously variable and centre the paper and genuine Adobe
Postscript. We needed a new printer in the yyyy Lab here last year and
after examining samples of the report forms they shipped a printer
(from Holland!) for us to try and then supplied a new one when we
ordered. It has never needed a service call, but from experience with
their colour printers this is good but pricey - a contract is well
advised.
Beware of paper quality, and also of cheap preprinting of report forms
- especially in colour - as this can come off on the rollers in the
printer and require lots of preventative maintenance.
-----Original Message-----
We have been using lasers for about 7 years as the previous system of
ink jet or dot matrix on continuous pre-printed stationary was causing
problems. These were: 1) pre-printed paper is expensive 2) reports were
printed in each laboratory around the department. 3) miles and miles of
reports would be found at 16:59 each day which had to be separated by
hand which lead to:- 4) RSI amongst the Specimen Reception staff.
We were asked to look at alternative means of report printing by the
Risk Manager, who said we must remove the risk, i.e. the manual
separation of forms.
We decided to use laser printers to print on plain A5 paper (80grms,
landscape) coloured for each department (pink Haem, yellow PHLS, green
Chem). We were already using this system for Histology (blue) and it
seemed logical to extend it to the rest of the labs.
We used Data Trade of Northampton and purchased software (Forms
Designer and Forms Manager) to run in conjunction with 3 Fujitsu 16DV
printers. These have just been replaced with 3 Lexmark T522. The set up
of the forms overlay is tricky and took a lot of work and "getting
heads round", but gives us the ability to customise the output of the
reports. Each printer has an IPC (Intelligent Print Controller) which
has the report overlay format. Each time a report is printed it
triggers the overlay to be printed as the xxxxx report is printed.
We have the printers in the Specimen Reception area so staff are
constantly taking the reports for dispatch as they are printed. The
printers have not been trouble-free, the main problem is paper jams,
but they "remember" where the jam took place and continue once the jam
is cleared. We have an on-site maintenance contract with Data Trade who
are very good at fixing faults. We have a 2 drawer printer at yyyy so
they can print Haem and Chem reports without having to change paper. We
also found it invaluable to have a spare printer if one the others was
out of action, which could also be used for developmental work off-line.
-----Original Message-----
We've had lasers on xxxxx since 1998. They are mostly HP Laserjet
4100TN models. Our experience is that they are fast, reliable and light
years ahead of continuous paper types. They have many advantages but
the most important appear to be : 1. Greater clarity with more font
choice and much greater flexibility of lay-out (allows smaller font
without loss of clarity) 2. When they run out of paper, they stop until
you fill them up, and continue where they left off ! Hence no lost
print runs 3. On the very rare occasions you get a jam, they do as in
(2), but also re-print the scrunched report which stopped it.
I don't know which models you will favour, but beware cheaper makes
which often seem to have lots of easily broken plastic bits in awkward
places. I'm a bit surprised someone as electronically connected as
yourself is looking at paper printers though Jonathan !
-----Original Message-----
We really like OKI lasers - they use an LED strip to produce the image
rather than a 1.5kV semiconductor drum, so they are more reliable &
produce cheaper copies. We currently have 3 Okipage 20n which we bought
refurbished (ex-demo) from Bob Gamble at Micro General in Pangbourne
(0118 984 4466) for about £500 each.
-----Original Message-----
We have had a succession of budget laser printers held together
variously with selotape and wedged pieces of cardboard, and have just
installed been imposed with another which will (most likely) sooner
rather than later go the same way. Because our reports aren't exactly
A4 this one doesn't curl up the edges if they are allowed to fall out
of the back rather than through the feeder system, and I just dread an
important result being thrown out behind the radiator (well, perhaps
not quite but you can see the risk implications). I am trying to
persuade the purse strings to pay (probably 4x) the cost to get a
machine fit for purpose. If people reply with good experiences directly
to you rather than the mailbase can you pass them on to me as the
ammunition may be very timely.
-----Original Message-----
The ones I used were Hewlett Packard Laserjet 4s but that was 2-3 years
ago. We took advice from the IT department re: choice of model.
-----Original Message-----
I have used multi-bin laser printers to print all the path labs reports
in one area. They are trickier to set up but can be very fast and
produce good quality reports. If you have two such printers in one area
they can back each other up. They are probably more prone to problems
than dot matrix or inkjet, usually related to the feed of sheets of
paper. It is better to use A4 sized paper, (i.e generally 2 reports per
sheet with a perforation across the middle) rather than using A5 sized
paper. They are more expensive to operate (toner etc) but there is less
work involved with trimming and dividing up continuous stationery as
with dot matrix.
-----Original Message-----
Don't even think about getting a Lexmark Optra E312. It has HUGE
problems with picking up only one sheet at a time. We trialled 2 of
them, both have the same problem. Now I am stuck with one. Neither work
well.
Larger Lexmarks are brilliant.
-----Original Message-----
We went through the same process more than 2.5 years ago. HP Laser Jet
4050N was the answer - with three purchased between haematology and
biochemistry ie two in use and one 'spare'. They have worked remarkably
well and microbiology have now installed the same model; trust policy
now appears to favour laser printers for general use. We use an A5
sized paper for reports - yes the printers do jam but are normally easy
to fix. 'Cheap' cartridges have not proved useful and we buy from HP.
Print quality is good - we print up to 1400 reports a day on a single
printer. There is sometimes a backlog of reprots to print and the
software for the system does not premit instant printing.
I would recommend a laser printer for any lab where quality and
reliability is important.
-----Original Message-----
We have been using Kyocera FS series laser for 5 years. They're cheap
to run but we've had a lot of problems with rollers, drums etc.
Developer, drum and toner are all separate items so there can be
additional problems. We are about to go live with telepath mumps and
have taken the opportunity to replace the Kyoceras with Lexmark
printers. They are widely used in tp1 sites and have a good name. There
is only a single cartridge replacement which incorporates the drum,
developer and toner (quite common on most printers, except kyocera). As
they have not yet been run in anger I cannot comment on their
reliability etc. A distinct advantage to using the Lexmarks (T620
model) is the use of the Optraform overlay software. The report output
from tp1 is adequate but Optraforms allows more flexibility on
positioning, graphics and fonts. Most of the larger models have options
such as input and output bins, finishing units.
-----Original Message-----
We use Kyocera FS3800s, originally on the recommendation of xxxx from
yyyy. They carry a warranty for two years or 900,000 sheets, provided
that a £500 maintenance kit is fitted every 300,000 sheets. We print
around 900,000 A5 sheets a year and we've found them to be quite
reliable. Printing from our elderly text-based zzzz system, we're able
to use the macro facility to print the department's header on the
reports, so that we can print on plain paper. On the recommendation of
our IT department we also tried out a HP 4000 at the time we changed to
laser printing; on A5 paper the HP dropped to around 5 pages per minute
after the first few minutes printing, and the report run took hours...
The Kyocera maintains a steady 18 ppm throughout the run. We use them
with the optional 2000-sheet motorised bulk feeder, which is also, on
the whole, reliable. The support's been good, and Kyocera now appear to
offer an on-site support package which we would have liked at times.
Our previous arrangements involved printing on continuous preprinted
stationery and running it through a burster. The dot-matrix printers
were noisy; we often had problems with misalignment of the print (which
would sometimes go unnoticed for the whole of a 1000-sheet print run);
and when our paper supplier went bankrupt, we very nearly got caught
out with no preprinted staionery. The bursters were bulky, noisy,
unreliable, and occasionally caught fire. The switch to lasers means
that printing is faster, quieter, less prone to wastage. The plain A5
stationery we use now costs less than the continuous stationery we used
previously, and the difference is enough to cover the purchase costs of
the printers. I estimate that our curent printing costs are about 0.96
pence per A5 sheet, assuming that the printer is written off over
900,000 sheets, compared with an estimate of about 0.91 pence per sheet
(1999 prices) for our previous printing arrangements.
I'd certainly recommend the switch to lasers. Next time, if budget
allows, we'll go for something a bit bigger, like the Kyocera 9000. We
could do with a larger output tray, as a single report run currently
more than fills ours, and the printer stops and waits to be emptied.
-----Original Message-----
A comment from one of our IT people:
"Suggest he contact Mailmate of Nottingham 0115 937 6661 for the
latest ideas on laser report printing....the way we currently do it
will be replaced in the future with networked printing..."
END
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