medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Marjorie Greene <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Saint-Lazare was not originally built as Autun's cathedral but rather to
house the shrine of Lazarus. It was in close proximity to the cathedral. 

yes, it appears to have been a "secular" collegial/collegiate church, with
some connection to/dependance upon the cathedral, but technically seperate,
both physically and institutionally. 

>For a fuller treatment of the biography of the building, see Linda Seidel's
_Legends in Limestone_ (_Legends in limestone : Lazarus, Gislebertus, and the
Cathedral of Autun_, Chicago : University of Chicago Press, c1999).


there's not much i've ever seen on the history of the place beyond Seidel's
treatment, which is surely the most accessible work around.

however, there should be something in Baudrillart's _Dictionnaire d'histoire
et de géographie ecclésiastiques_, though that might be a bit hard to find. 
the articles in that work were, in the main, written by various experts on the
places --the one for Chartres is particularly good
(http://www.ariadne.org/centrechartraine/delaporte/DGHE-8.DOC --warning: a
153kb .doc file) 

>(but don't necessarily buy her thesis that Gislebertus was not the sculptor,
the main thrust of her argument).


i'll second that.

the book has been the topic of several occasionally sputtering strings on the
Medart list over the last couple of years, with depressingly inconclusive
results.

imHo, in her opening chapter she does a very, very good job of illuminating
the Modern Construct which is the Artistic Personality of Gislebertus of Autun
--an exemplary bit of historiographic deconstruction, and one which should be
required reading, not just for middlevil art hysterians but for anyone in any
field who has to deal with (often hidden) "constructs" which have great
influence. 

this is followed by a thoroughly *embarassing* --even for an art 
hysterian-- troll through a (very) few of the surviving historical documents,
in a lame search of some other "Gislebertus" in the region in hopes of pinning
the tale on the tympanum inscription on some donkey or other.  (leaving one to
wonder whether or not the University of Chicago Press still adheres to the
quaint old custom of having someone who might actually know something about a
subject read submitted mss before they are published.)

of considerable interest to members of this list, perhaps --and i hope-- is
what i take to be the *real* "thrust of her argument" (esp. given the dreadful
hash she makes of the historical documents), namely that the church --with its
historiated capitals, beautiful tableau of the tomb of St. Lazarus, tympanum
(and, she doesn't mention, surely extensive wall painting, as well)-- was
intended to be topologically congruent (my term, not hers) with the tomb in
the Holy Land, such that a visitor to Autun would, in essence, vicariously
share the experience of a "real" pilgrim to the latter site.

this topic generally intrigues me considerably, having as it does implications
which are applicable to a great number of other sites --some in the Chartrain
among them.

Phyllis Jestice <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> May I please solicit the list's help for one of my students working on a
> senior thesis?  Her work involves an examination of romanesque tympana >of
the last judgment.  Can anyone tell us the monastic affiliation of 
the following churches?

for Autun, i'd say that the fact that it was right there, smack dab in the
middle of Cluniac territory, with dozens of Cluniac priories dripping with
sculpture just a few stones' tosses away, was a more important factor than its
"monastic affiliation."

also, recall that the Autun sculptor (whatever his name was) almost surely
worked on the earliest(?) sculptural campaign at Vezelay.

for all intents and purposes the guy was a "Cluniac" sculptor, wherever his
surviving work (just a small percentage of what once existed, surely)
happens to be found.

> 1.  Vezelay (Judgment tympanum dated c.1125-1130)
> 2.  S. Pierre, Beaulieu-sur-Dordogne (Judgment tympanum c. 1130-1140)
> 3.  Ste. Foi, Conques (JT c. 1140)
> 4.  S. Trophime, Arles (JT c.1180-1200)
> 5.  Autun (JT c. 1125-1135)
> 6.  Carennace (JT c.1130)

how about St. Denis ?

remember that "romanesque" is every bit as much a Modren Construct as The
Artistic Personality of Gislebertus of Autun.

and, of course, all of these (with the exception of St. Denis) depend upon
their dating primarily upon comparative stylistic analysis, more an Art than a
Science, and one subject to the same vagueries of sloppy thinking and
non-rigorous methodology as may be found in the rest of Art Hystery.

useful for Vezelay (primarily for the various styles at work), is the recent
:

La sculpture oubliée de Vézelay : catalogue du musée lapidaire / Lydwine
Saulnier, Neil Stratford.  Genève : Droz, 1984.  x, 283 p., lxxxviii p. of
plates : ill. ; 30 cm 

and, for Burgundy generally : Stratford's _Studies in Burgundian Romanesque
sculpture_(London: Pindar Press, 1998. 2 v.) 

best from here,

christopher

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