medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Just to weigh in briefly, as I expect the arrival of my own "Celtic
saint" any day now . . .
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>>From: Phyllis Jestice <[log in to unmask]>
>
>>I agree with Francine about the problem of "Celtic religion" or "Celtic
>>culture."
>
>Actually, when I say "Celtic religion," I'm usually thinking of the
>indigenous pre-Christian system of beliefs and practices. I usually
>avoid saying "Celtic Christianity" because that suggests uniformity
>among all the Christians in Celtic regions--a notion that, as far as
>I know, doesn't get much credence these days.
Does "Celtic religion" inherently convey any greater sense of
diversity? Seems to me it's just a matter of preference, or how
picky we're all going to be about various labels. I don't like to
use the term "pagan" because of many assumptions that come along with
it, and "pre-Christian" implies those beliefs/practices just vanished
once Christianity arrived in Ireland or wherever, and/or that the
island converted in one fell swoop, and so forth. "Celtic religionS"
might be a better solution, but to what extent can we say that the
people practicing them were "Celts" or that the religions themselves
were inherently "Celtic"? There's no ideal solution, IMHO, so
sometimes I'll use labels I don't generally care for and qualify them
probably ad nauseam, sometimes I'll use "indigenous
religions/beliefs/practices" qualified by whatever region I'm talking
about (though that approach too has its problems, such as apparent
disregard of non-indigenous influence), and sometimes I'll just wimp
out and put "celtic" in "".
Also, I think Francine's remarks regarding "Celtic Christianity" are
more applicable to the term "Celtic Church," which does imply
uniformity, whereas "Celtic Christianity" suggests shared
similarities, but not uniformity. Wendy Davies' argument about the
myth of a "Celtic Church" has always seemed a bit of a joust with a
straw man to me, as I've never actually read an analysis post 1950s
that proclaims there to have been a single monolithic Celtic form of
Christianity. Plus, her neglect of the fact that Ireland fell outside
of the Roman Empire, which had significant consequences politically,
culturally, religiously, etc, seriously undercuts the effectiveness
of her argument. And a primary characterization of "Celtic
Christianity" is its allowance for tremendous diversity, so it seems
to me that Davies is setting up a false dichotomy. Moreover, anybody
who assumes absolute uniformity in any branch of Christianity would
be greatly rewarded by further investigation into that field.
>
>>But what DO we do with the large number of saints who are "maybe
>>Welsh," or "maybe Irish," or "Iro-Scottish," or "turned up in
>>Brittany at some point"?
>
>Perhaps the best policy is to stick to the facts that are known,
>such as "his birthplace is unknown but he trained at Lismore with
>Carthach and he spent time in Lindisfarne before moving on to
>Echternach" and leave it at that? Or say that X's name is Irish or
>British but it's not known where he came from and he died in Germany?
Oh, the luxury of "facts that are known"! The vast majority of
statements about the vast majority of early Irish saints would have
to be seriously qualified by, "according to [insert name of text
written several centuries after saint is believed to have lived],
he/she trained at/was related to/established a community at . . ." or
the like, followed by a discussion of the limits of the reliability
of said text/tradition/what have you. Which would be quite a
mouthful every time Phyllis reminded us it's such and such's feast
day! And saints, after all, are not limited to or by "facts".
Best,
Maeve
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