medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Has anyone ever studies medieval ideas of madness?
Tom Izbicki
At 12:45 PM 8/5/2002 +0200, you wrote:
>I'm agree also, Mr. Jeffrey Woolf, in fact the Freud's approach was
>psychiatric, more than phylosophic or sociological. He want to take
>care of ills. But a shape of psychologic researche is present in many
>medieval theologic or mystical sources, also if we don't have a
>psychology as a science. The medievals make the man's "analysis" at the
>light of Revelation, and of Greek phylosophers. The major problem is
>the connection between the soul and God. Best. Claudio Attardi
> > medieval-
>religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> > On Freud- Freud's attitude toward religion was very nuanced. He was
> > evidently very Jewishly literate. His inner sanctum contained a copy o
>f
> > the Talmud and other Hebrew classics. So, being an atheist did not mea
>n
> > that religion did not profoundly affect his model.
> >
> > On Jung, I agree fully with Marjorie.
> >
> > Jeffrey Woolf
> >
> > On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Marjorie Greene wrote:
> >
> > > medieval-
>religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> > >
> > > Dear Claudio,
> > > Somehow Freud has gotten mixed up in this. I'd like to
> > > point out that, yes, Freud was an atheist and believed
> > > religion was a symptom of neurosis. It is precisely on
> > > this point that he and Jung differ and was, in large
> > > measure, the cause of their break. For Jung, a lack of
> > > connection with God (and I'll admit his "definition"
> > > of God was very slippery) was the principal cause of
> > > emotional strife. And God was to be found by looking
> > > within oneself. His theory of individuation (there's
> > > an ideal version of each person to which that person
> > > must constantly strive) is quite compatible with
> > > spirituality of whatever age. I'm reminded of Jung
> > > every time I read Augustine.
> > > MG
> > > --- "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > When I speak of spiritual experience, I want to
> > > > suggest an experience
> > > > simply different to a psychological one. So I’m
> > > > agree when someone said
> > > > that there are many differences between our social
> > > > or intellectual
> > > > structures and the Middle Age. This is clear.But
> > > > the spiritual
> > > > experience (and I remember that Freud was
> > > > unbeliever) concerns the
> > > > relation between one person and God (the Christian
> > > > Godin this case, I
> > > > speak about the European Middle Age), as two
> > > > persons, with their
> > > > ontological structures, always the same, despite the
> > > > history ‘s
> > > > changes. So the psychological experience concerns
> > > > the historical
> > > > singular experience(il vissuto, in italian), while
> > > > the spiritual
> > > > experience concerns the relation between God and
> > > > man, enlightened by
> > > > the Revelation light. This, according to the spirit
> > > > of medieval man,
> > > > and our spirit also. Best, and thank you for this
> > > > interesting
> > > > discussion. Claudio Attardi
> > > > > medieval-
> > > > religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion
> > > > and culture
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Marjorie.
> > > > > Let's put things into context. The
> > > > conversation took place in the
> > > > spring
> > > > > of 1977 when Duby was just beginning to make waves
> > > > in the US. So it's
> > > > really
> > > > > unfair to judge Professor Constable's comments by
> > > > the state of scholar
> > > > ship
> > > > > today. Second, he is a wonderful scholar and a
> > > > very open thinker from
> > > > whom I
> > > > > learned worlds, so I think the harshness of your
> > > > comment is out of pla
> > > > ce.
> > > > > Third, not being a Foucault aficionado, I
> > > > personally am very cautious
> > > > about
> > > > > 'psycho' anything when it comes to other periods.
> > > > Gurevitch has persua
> > > > ded me
> > > > > that the emotional and intellectual structure of
> > > > medieval society was
> > > > very
> > > > > different than ours. Each generation's neuroses
> > > > were dealt with differ
> > > > ently.
> > > > > So, as Barry Rubin has recently argued, Freud may
> > > > have beenirrelevant
> > > >to
> > > > > the needs of earlier periods. OTOH, I do suspect
> > > > that living within a
> > > > more
> > > > > or less integrated belief system provides more
> > > > emotional support and h
> > > > ence
> > > > > less emotional illness, than does life in an
> > > > industrial, libertarian
> > > > > society.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeffrey Woolf
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Marjorie Greene" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 2:24 AM
> > > > > Subject: [M-R] Constable response
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > medieval-
> > > > religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion
> > > > and culture
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your question to Giles Constable was thoughtful
> > > > and
> > > > > > very interesting. It's too bad his response was:
> > > > 1)
> > > > > > non-responsive; and 2) uninformed. Perhaps it
> > > > was
> > > > > > years before psycho-history,
> > > > psycho-anthropology,
> > > > > > psychoanalytical art- and literary criticism,
> > > > etc.
> > > > > > were fully accepted areas of learned research.
> > > > It
> > > > > > bespeaks a true fear of the topic, one that is
> > > > gaining
> > > > > > in its ability to pique interest. My students
> > > > > > frequently wonder about the effects of child
> > > > rearing
> > > > > > practices on the (medieval) children in question
> > > > and I
> > > > > > have no decent informed response. Perhaps I just
> > > > don't
> > > > > > know where to look...
> > > > > > MG
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
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> > > >
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Thomas M. Izbicki
Collection Development Coordinator
Eisenhower Library
Johns Hopkins University
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