medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Consequently, the great
> philosophers of the past
> have despised the world, not renouncing it so much
> as escaping from it, and
> have denied themselves every pleasure so as to find
> peace in the arms of
> philosophy alone.
This sounds to me as though it _could_ be an argument
against romance in general. But knowing your
reputation and writings on A and H, I bow to your
vastly superior competence in such matters. And I'm
again amazed at how the mind plays tricks. Where, oh
where, did I get this "reading before the fire" motif?
A whole study on this theme, bringing it up into the
modern period, has crumbled before my eyes! But better
before my eyes than those of an enfuriated
reader!Again, thanks to all.
MG
--- "Ms Brenda M. Cook" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
> religion and culture
>
> From: "Marjorie Greene" <[log in to unmask]>
>
> In any case, the reading-gets-you-into-trouble
> motif, as well as Heloise's
> notion that intellectual men are hampered by
> romantic involvements,
> persists in literature down to the present.
> > MG
>
> NO. Not romance but MARRIAGE, its commitment &
> consequences:
>
> I append an edited chunk of Heloise's very verbose
> argument againt marriage.
> She had NO objection to continuing as his mistress.
> It was marriage that she
> saw as a disaster. And she was right.
>
> Heloise's rejection of marriage *as reported by
> Abelard* in the "Historia
> Calamitatum", taken from the Radice translation,
> Penguin Books, pp 70-72.
>
> I set off at once for Brittany and brought back my
> mistress to make her my
> wife. But she was strongly opposed to the proposal,
> and argued hotly against
> it for two reasons: the risk involved and the
> disgrace to myself. .
> What honour could she win, she protested, from a
> marriage which would
> dishonour me and humiliate us both? .
> Along with the loss to my reputation she put before
> me the difficulties of
> marriage .
> But if I would accept neither the advice of the
> Apostle nor the exhortations
> of the Fathers on the heavy yoke of marriage, at
> least, she argued, I could
> listen to the philosophers.
> After Cicero had divorced Terentia and was asked by
> Hirtius to marry his
> sister he firmly refused to do so, on the grounds
> that he could not devote
> his attention to a wife and philosophy alike. He
> does not simply say "devote
> attention", but adds "alike". not wishing to do
> anything which would be a
> rival to his study of philosophy. .
>
> But apart from the hindrances to such philosophic
> study, consider, she said,
> the true conditions for a dignified way of life.
> "What harmony can there be
> between pupils and nurse-maids, desks and cradles,
> books or tablets and
> distafis, pen or stylus and spindles? Who can
> concentrate on thoughts of
> Scripture or philosophy and be able to endure babies
> crying, nurses soothing
> them with lullabies, and all the noisy coming and
> going of men and women
> about the house? Will he put up with the constant
> muddle and squalor which
> small children bring into the home? The wealthy can
> do so, you will say, for
> their mansions and large houses can provide privacy
> and being rich, they do
> not have to count the cost nor be tormented by daily
> cares. But philosophers
> lead a very different life from rich men, and those
> who are concerned with
> wealth or are involved in mundane matters will not
> have time for the claims
> of Scripture or philosophy.
>
>
> Further comment - Translate the social details into
> 21st century ones and
> don't women academics have just these problems today
> ???? This most
> certainly rang a bell with me when I first read it
> !!!
>
> BMC
>
>
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