Regarding the B.B. Popplewell mentioned in connection with the Nant-y-Car mine
(between 1863 - 1871), and as
one of the seven founding subscribers of the Tassan Mining Company Ltd in 1857 -
1858. I wonder if there is any connection between him and the founder of the
large Southern African drilling company, floruit 1940s-1970s? I believe the
name of the company was Squirrell and Popplewell, but that sounds too cute to be
true, and after 30 years my memory could be playing tricks.
Also, Capt. James Skimming was almost certainly from SE Scotland (Wigtownshire),
or possibly from the Isle of Man (although the normal spelling there is Skimmin
or, much more commonly, Shimmin), if that is of any interest in view of the
connection of members of the Tetley family with mining in all three places
(Tassan, Nant-y-Car, and Kirk Michael).
John
John Berry
5013 Westview Dr.,
AUSTIN, TX 78731
512-452-8068
[log in to unmask]
----- Original Message -----
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of mining-history digests <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, 02 July, 2002 6:21 PM
Subject: mining-history Digest - 1 Jul 2002 to 2 Jul 2002 (#2002-26)
There are 10 messages totalling 597 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Ashcroft and Tancanagno
2. Copper Mill (3)
3. Royal Commission on Children's Employment of 1842 (4)
4. Nant-y-car Mine, Wales
5. Collieries of S Wales vol 2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 10:02:19 +0800
From: Gerard MacGill <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ashcroft and Tancanagno
Belated comments on Ashcroft and Tancanagno, from a colleague who prefers t=
o
remain anonymous.=20
Re Ashcroft. There was another Ashcroft, one J.W. Ashcroft , who was also
active in NSW mining at the same time as E.A. Ashcroft. JWA was a principal
of Savage and Ashcroft, Sydney mining consultants. The firm was consultant
to the Kyloe copper mine at Adaminaby, which in 1911, installed (largely at
Ashcroft=92s instigation) what was probably the first successful flotation
plant outside Broken Hill. The cost of the Minerals Separation plant was
recovered in 5 months.(See Ralph Birrell=92s monograph, =91The Role of Minerals
Separation Ltd in the Development of the Flotation Process=92.) Were the two
Ashcrofts related?=20
I would like to buy a copy of Peter Jenkins book =91The Elmore Mystery=92 if
anyone could tell me where to get it from.
Re Tancanagno. The comment =91Many such as it are used in the West Indies=92
sounds like a bit of Scots leg pulling. In 1619 the chances of there being
Cornish or German style stamp mills in the West Indies would be very remote=
.
There were no mines then on the West Indian islands as far as I am aware.
Atkinson may have been referring to Mexico when speaking of the West Indies=
.
Even if he was the Spanish gold mines in Mexico did not use stamp mills of
the type derived from medieval European methods. Crushing of gold ore at
Mexican mines was done in three ways: by the =91arrastra=92 in which heavy
stones were dragged over the ore by mules: by the so-called Chilean wheel, =
a
large stone wheel set on edge moving around a circle and by the =91maza=92, a
single pillar stamp operating in a mortar (Otis Young, =91Western Mining).
Gerard MacGill=20
52 Harvest Road, North Fremantle WA 6159
(08) 9335 7471; Facs (08) 9335 8241=20
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 14:20:14 +0100
From: Chris Salter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Copper Mill
Jeremy,
From my database - sorry that I was heavily biased to iron when I recorded this.
-------
Byfleet Mill TQ 073 607
Potter J.F 1982. Industrial Archaeology Review. 6 (3) p211-223.
Notes
Ind Arch Rev 1982:- The first documented reference to iron manufacture in 1712
which states that Thomas Wethered held a lease on the mill in 1703 which had
been converted into brass and iron-working for making iron hoops and other
things.
The Bristol brass company took over the mill. The mill was converted back to its
original use 1806/07. The mill was still standing in 1982 with a substantial
quantity
of fused cinder and a small amount of iron forge slag visible in the vicinity.
The author estimates that production of iron artefacts was limited and there was
no evidence of iron smelting.
I am sure that I have come across some more recent work on this site, but that
has not go into the database yet.
If anybody has any copper sheet or ship pins that can securely be dated to this
period, I like to know. As we need material to compare with shipwreck pins from
off the Isle of Wight.
--
Chris Salter,
Electron Microscopy and MicroAnalysis Group,
Department of Materials, Begbroke Business and Science Park,
Sandy Lane, Yarnton, Oxford, OX5 1PF
Tel 01865 283722, EPMA 283741, Mobile 07776031608
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:09:25 +0100
From: penwith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Copper Mill
Chris ,
You could well find that the pins in the small museum in Amlwch were from the
period
in question. These would most likely have been made by one of Thomas Williams
many
enterprises, and I would guess date from the third quarter of the eighteenth/
first
quarter nineteenth century.
Regards
John
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:35:56 +0100
From: Keith Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Royal Commission on Children's Employment of 1842
Someone on the list sent me an email asking for further details of this
Royal Commission report a week or so ago, but due to software problems I've
lost the original message, so I hope Peter won't mind me replying via the
list - the subject may be of some interest to others anyway.
I've only looked closely at the section dealing with the collieries in the
Bristol and Somerset area, but, from memory, the report deals with most of
the coalfields in Britain and a number of metalliferous mining areas.
There are two volumes: the Report itself and an Appendix. They contain more
or less the same information, dealt with by subject in the Report and by
area in the Appendix. The full details are as follows:-
"Children's Employment Commission. First Report of the Commissioners.
Mines", PP 1842, XV
"Children's Employment Commission. Appendix to First Report of the
Commissioners. Mines. Part II. Report and Evidence from Sub-Commissioners",
PP 1842, XVII
They only deal with those mines which were visited by the commissioners and
consist largely of reports of interviews with named miners. They also give
some details of owners and numbers employed at the mines.
Getting hold of a copy is likely to be a problem. I've never seen an
original copy, but they are included in the microfiche edition of
nineteenth-century British Parliamentary papers published by Chadwyck
Healey. They were also republished in book form by the Irish University
Press in the 1960s. The trouble is that it's difficult to find either of
these except in university libraries or large public libraries.
Keith Ramsey
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:52:06 +0100
From: Mike Moore <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Nant-y-car Mine, Wales
John Cornwells book on Collieries Volume 2 is now available if you are
interested
Mike
www.moorebooks.co.uk
[log in to unmask]
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Williams <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: Nant-y-car Mine, Wales
> Hope that the information below is useful.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> At a quick pass there was a George Greenwood Tetley of Bradford,
> merchant, who was a trustee of the Kirk Michael Lead and Copper Co. in
> 1868. A Charles Tetley of Douglas was a partner in the same mine
> earlier. (See Kirk Michael Mine in the Isle of Man by Rolf von Arx,
> British Mining no. 61)
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> From "Metal Mines of South Wales" by George Hall, dated 1971 or 1993
> (take your choice) -
>
> NANT Y CAR
> Copper, lead, and zinc mines 6.5 miles W. 40º S. of Rhayader
> North Mine GR. SN 891 618.
> South Mine GR. SN 885 609
>
> The contemporary agent's reports which appeared under the name of Nant y
> Car (or Cae) were far from explicit, and sometimes confusing, but the
> most satisfactory interpretation of them seems to be that they referred
> to two separate sets of workings. One, at which copper predominates, is
> on the south side of the Claerwen Valley, just above its confluence with
> the Rhiwnant, while the other, where lead and zinc are the principal
> economic minerals, is on the west side of the Rhiwnant Valley, about
> five-eighths of a mile south-south-west of the first. Presumably both
> were in the same lease area. For present convenience they will be called
> the north and south mines.
>
> Lead and copper ores have long been known to exist in the locality, and
> it is probable that shallow workings existed in the 18th century, or
> even earlier. The Old Series 1" Geological Map marks three parallel
> north-south lodes in the lower part of the Rhiwnant Valley, which
> suggests that the deposits were well known by the middle of the 19th
> century, but the modern history of the district began in 1844, when four
> gentlemen noticed remains of former trials at the north mine. After some
> satisfactory initial explorations, they started a new perpendicular
> engine shaft, to come down on the calculated dip of the ore shoots at a
> fair depth. A company was formed in 1849 to take over the property, and
> in the following year the shaft reached the 43 (probably 30 fms below
> adit), and development began on the lode at that level. Remarkably rich
> specimens of ore were obtained, described as "a mineral wonder", and
> assaying up to 25% copper. Not surprisingly these caused something of a
> sensation, and for a time shares in this mine, and the neighbouring
> Dalrhiw, enjoyed great demand. A number of reports appeared in the
> Mining Journal from 1851-53, and these advised shareholders of provision
> of a new 50 ft water-wheel for pumping, the older 24 ft wheel being then
> used for hauling; the purchase of a crusher; and the completion of the
> engine shaft to the 53. This level and the 43 were driven south; some
> stoping done north of the shaft; as well as trials and stoping in the
> old workings to the south. Monthly costs at this period varied between
> £100 and £250. The first sale of ore, made late in 1853, averaged 13%
> copper, but the deeper levels clearly proved very unsatisfactory, and
> according to one report the lode entirely disappeared in the bottom of
> the mine. It was probably evident by 1854 that this venture had been a
> failure, but the company apparently continued prospecting elsewhere in
> the sett, and seem to have discovered, in September 1855, a promising
> lead lode in an adit at the south mine.
>
>
> This at first opened out well, in 1856 the necessary machinery for
> deepening the workings and returning ore was obtained, and the following
> year the agent felt able to foretell a satisfactory future. However, the
> situation afterwards deteriorated, no doubt basically because the lode,
> on further development, did not prove as valuable as it had originally
> promised, but probably the shareholders were already wearied by
> disappointment at the north mine. In 1859 it was resolved to wind-up the
> company, and although pioneer exploration then ceased, tributing
> continued for some time. In 1863 B. B. Popplewell took over the
> property, and he retained it until 1872, when it passed to George R.
> Tetley, in 1875 to Mrs. Tetley, and in 1878 to C. W. Seccombe.
> Apparently during the tenancy of the last named, a new and richer lode
> was discovered at Nantygarw which resulted in Nant y Car being shortly
> after abandoned in favour of the former mine - that is, in or about
> 1883. From 1863 Nant y Car was always a private concern, and no details
> of the operations seem to have been preserved. The Mineral Statistics
> recorded sales of lead and/or zinc ores for most years up to 1878, but
> never in large quantity, although the size of the dumps at the south
> mine, which contain a fair amount of blende, indicate the accomplishment
> of a good deal of underground work.
>
> At the north mine surface trials and opencuts extend for a length of 135
> yards along the lode on the moorland hillside about 300 yards south of
> the Claerwen. 100 yards north is the vertical Engine Shaft, adjacent to
> which are the remains of dressing floors. Further down is a large water-
> wheel pit, and by the river the deep adit, now choked. The adit can be
> reached by descending the Engine Shaft, to which it is connected with a
> short crosscut, but rather surprisingly it has only been driven 35 paces
> south of the shaft, and does not connect with the older workings. At the
> south mine the engine shaft lies close to the Rhiwnant stream, and near
> the outcrop of the principal lode, which has also been opened on the
> hillside above by two adits, now caved in - as well as at Dalrhiw Mine
> on the opposite bank. From the engine shaft a tramway ran to a pair of
> stone orebins, feeding onto a picking floor, from which spreads a
> considerable dump of waste rock. Immediately below are the walls of a
> large water-wheel pit, arranged both to pump from the shaft, and drive
> the crushing and dressing plant, and a small heap of tailings, which
> indicates that at one time hand-picking was supplemented by jigging
> machines. A short way up the valley another adit suggests the existence
> of a parallel lode, but little has been done to develop it.
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> In the next section of George Hall's book is the description of Dalrhiw
> Mine, and "In 1854 Captain James Skimming was asked to inspect the mine,
> and his report was published in the Mining Journal of July 1854 (p499)."
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> From "Lead Mining in Wales" by W.J. Lewis (1967) p180
>
> "An energetic, if not very successful, mine manager of this period was
> Edward Davies, who received his training at the Parys Mountain copper
> mine before leasing the Rhoswyddol and Dyfngwm mines in Montgomeryshire,
> and the Radnorshire mine of Nant-y-car. He worked these for about thirty
> years without any real success; nor was he any more fortunate as manager
> of Dylife."
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> From "Lead Mining in Wales" by W.J. Lewis (1967) p253-4
>
> The only other work in the county was the Dal-rhiw, a continuation into
> Breconshire of the Nant-y-car mine of Radnorshire. Situated in the
> Rhiwnant Valley, it contained more copper than lead and it lasted for
> only a few years.
>
> Mining in Radnorshire, too, was on a very small scale. As stated
> already, because of flooding, Groves had very wisely leased his Cwm Elan
> mine to Sir Thomas Bonsall. The water problem was easily solved by means
> of a drainage level, and Bonsall retained the work until his death, when
> it was taken over by a Cornish company. This was the only mine at work
> in the county in the early part of the century, but it fell idle before
> the 1830's and was not reopened for about thirty years.
>
> The next spell of activity began about 1850 when a discovery was made
> which led to the opening of the Nant-y-car mine near Rhayader. Small
> quantities of ore ranging from 13 to 69 tons a year were raised until
> about 1868. Nothing was then recorded for the county until the early
> seventies when the Radnor Lead Mining Company was formed, presumably to
> work this mine. At about the same time a company reopened Cwm Elan and
> raised 175 tons of lead ore and 160 tons of blende before closing four
> years later. The only other information available concerning the latter
> is that afforded by an indignant shareholder who complained that he had
> been refused permission to visit the mine and inspect its books. Small
> amounts ranging from 5 to 90 tons a year were yielded by other mines
> till 1879 when there was again a halt. Included in these totals was the
> product of the Fedw mine, four miles cast of Llangurig, a very small
> affair which lasted only three years. Two other mines in this district
> were St. Harmon and West Fedw, both very small.
>
> The most productive period in the industry in this county began with a
> discovery at the Nant-y-car mine in 1881. The output was very small at
> first, but after a few years it reached over a hundred tons a year and
> even 389 tons in 1890. This spell lasted until the end of the century
> but it should be noted that the mine was listed as being in Breconshire
> and it is possible, therefore, that the development was on that part of
> the work south of the border.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> In message <[log in to unmask]>, John
> Morris <[log in to unmask]> writes
> >I have just discovered what might be a most unlikely connection between
the
> >Tassan Mine in Co. Monaghan, Ireland and the Nant-y-Car mine listed at
> >Llanwrthwl, Brecknockshire, Wales in Mineral Statistics during the 1870s.
> >
> >Not only did James Skimming, the subject of an earlier enquiry I made to
> >this list, serve as Chief Agent at both mines [during the early/mid 1860s
at
> >Tassan, and during the late 1860s/early 1870s at Nant-y-Car], but
> >individuals by the name of Popplewell and Tetley feature amongst
> >owners/shareholders in both instances. For example, a B.B.Popplewell is
> >listed as the owner of the Nant-y-Car mine between 1863 - 1871, while a
> >Benjamin Briggs Popplewell (a Bradford based Wine Merchant)features as
one
> >of the seven founding subscribers, and principal shareholders of the
Tassan
> >Mining Company Ltd in 1857 - 1858.
> >
> >Does anybody on the list know anything about the history of the
Nant-y-Car
> >mine? Where exactly was this mine, has a history of the mine been
published
> >anywhere, or are there any references to it which I might pursue?
> >
> >Many thanks for any suggestions.
> >
> >John Morris
>
> --
> Dave Williams - [log in to unmask]
>
> Visit the Mining History Network at
> http://info.exeter.ac.uk/~RBurt/MinHistNet
> for information on PDMHS Ltd., the active Mining History Society.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:59:18 +0100
From: Mike Moore <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Collieries of S Wales vol 2
John Cornwells book on Collieries Volume 2 is now available if you are
interested
cost £19.95 + £2.00 p&p it is not yet added to my website
I will provide a review later
Mike
www.moorebooks.co.uk
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 19:49:05 +0100
From: David Hardwick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Royal Commission on Children's Employment of 1842
If the person who contacted you wants to get hold of a copy he/she could try
looking at Ian Winstanleys Web site
http://www.cmhrc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
Which States
"Transcripts of the Royal Comission Reports, on the working conditions of
children and young persons in the coalfields of Great Britain, 1842. NOW
COMPLETE"
TITLES AVAILABLE:-
CORNWALL AND DEVON
CUMBERLAND
DERBYSHIRE AND NOTTINGHAMSHIRE
EAST SCOTLAND
FOREST of DEAN and SOUTH GLOUCESTERSHIRE and NORTH and SOUTH SOMERSET
LANCASHIRE CHESHIRE and parts of DERBYSHIRE
LEAD MINES OF LANARK AND DUMFRIES
LEAD MINES IN NORTHUMBERLAND AND DURHAM
MINES AND COLLIERIES IN SOUTHERN IRELAND
NORTH LANCASHIRE
NORTH STAFFORDSHIRE AND CHESHIRE
NORTH WALES
NORTHUMBERLAND AND THE NORTH OF DURHAM
SHROPSHIRE
SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE
SOUTH DURHAM COAL FIELD
SOUTH WALES (1)
SOUTH WALES (2)
WARWICKSHIRE and LEICESTERSHIRE
WEST RIDING OF YORKSHIRE (1)
WEST RIDING OF YORKSHIRE (2 and 3)
WEST SCOTLAND
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 19:54:02 +0100
From: David Hardwick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Copper Mill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Salter" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Copper Mill
...... Ind Arch Rev 1982:- The first documented reference to iron
manufacture in 1712
> which states that Thomas Wethered held a lease on the mill in 1703 which
had
> been converted into brass and iron-working for making iron hoops and other
> things. The Bristol brass company took over the mill. ......
Does anyone know if there is any connection with the Weatherhead family who
had coal mining interests in the mid to late 19th C in the Bristol area?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:56:40 +0100
From: Andy Cuckson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Royal Commission on Children's Employment of 1842
Regarding seeing a copy, you might check the House of Lords Record Office.
You can make an appointment to research there.
Andy Cuckson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mining-history [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
> Keith Ramsey
> Sent: 02 July 2002 17:36
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Royal Commission on Children's Employment of 1842
>
>
> Someone on the list sent me an email asking for further details of this
> Royal Commission report a week or so ago, but due to software
> problems I've
> lost the original message, so I hope Peter won't mind me replying via the
> list - the subject may be of some interest to others anyway.
>
> I've only looked closely at the section dealing with the collieries in the
> Bristol and Somerset area, but, from memory, the report deals with most of
> the coalfields in Britain and a number of metalliferous mining areas.
>
> There are two volumes: the Report itself and an Appendix. They
> contain more
> or less the same information, dealt with by subject in the Report and by
> area in the Appendix. The full details are as follows:-
>
> "Children's Employment Commission. First Report of the
> Commissioners.
> Mines", PP 1842, XV
>
> "Children's Employment Commission. Appendix to First Report of the
> Commissioners. Mines. Part II. Report and Evidence from
> Sub-Commissioners",
> PP 1842, XVII
>
> They only deal with those mines which were visited by the
> commissioners and
> consist largely of reports of interviews with named miners. They also give
> some details of owners and numbers employed at the mines.
>
> Getting hold of a copy is likely to be a problem. I've never seen an
> original copy, but they are included in the microfiche edition of
> nineteenth-century British Parliamentary papers published by Chadwyck
> Healey. They were also republished in book form by the Irish University
> Press in the 1960s. The trouble is that it's difficult to find either of
> these except in university libraries or large public libraries.
>
> Keith Ramsey
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 20:47:04 +0100
From: David Hardwick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Royal Commission on Children's Employment of 1842
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Ramsey" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 5:35 PM
Subject: Royal Commission on Children's Employment of 1842
> Someone on the list sent me an email asking for further details of this
> Royal Commission report a week or so ago, but due to software problems
I've
> lost the original message, so I hope Peter won't mind me replying via the
> list - the subject may be of some interest to others anyway.
>
> I've only looked closely at the section dealing with the collieries in the
> Bristol and Somerset area, but, from memory, the report deals with most of
> the coalfields in Britain and a number of metalliferous mining areas.
>
> There are two volumes: the Report itself and an Appendix. They contain
more
> or less the same information, dealt with by subject in the Report and by
> area in the Appendix. The full details are as follows:-
>
> "Children's Employment Commission. First Report of the
Commissioners.
> Mines", PP 1842, XV
>
> "Children's Employment Commission. Appendix to First Report of the
> Commissioners. Mines. Part II. Report and Evidence from
Sub-Commissioners",
> PP 1842, XVII
>
> They only deal with those mines which were visited by the commissioners
and
> consist largely of reports of interviews with named miners. They also give
> some details of owners and numbers employed at the mines.
>
> Getting hold of a copy is likely to be a problem. I've never seen an
> original copy, but they are included in the microfiche edition of
> nineteenth-century British Parliamentary papers published by Chadwyck
> Healey. They were also republished in book form by the Irish University
> Press in the 1960s. The trouble is that it's difficult to find either of
> these except in university libraries or large public libraries.
>
> Keith Ramsey
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
------------------------------
End of mining-history Digest - 1 Jul 2002 to 2 Jul 2002 (#2002-26)
******************************************************************
|
