JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives


MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives


MEDIEVAL-RELIGION@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Home

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Home

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION  August 2001

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION August 2001

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: thanks and talking idols

From:

"Ms B.M. Cook" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 1 Aug 2001 19:56:38 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (74 lines)

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

> the query: do you know of any medieval stories, miracles, whatever
> involving either an IDOL   OR  a STATUE OF A SAINT
> that speaks, moves, or walks? a pagan idol which "comes to life"
> would be perfect - has anyone heard of such a thing?
> If so, please send me bibliographic references that are as
> detailed as possible

I know of two versions of this story and of a reference to a third.

Version 1. is in William of Malmesbury's Gesta regvm anglorvm. (History of
the English Kings). In the Mynors (1998 - OUP) translation it is on vol. 1
pages .381ff.

In this version, an unnamed young (Christian) Roman patrician marries. The
story must be set in the late Roman Empire. After the wedding feast, he
indulges in ball games with his male friends to pass the time before bed.
His heavy betrothal ring (wedding ring) gets in the way so for safety his
puts it on the finger of a bronze stautue of a woman which stands at the
edge of the campus. When the game is over, he finds the bronze fingers
clenched around the ring which he cannot prize off. Without admitting what
has happened he goes off to his marriage bed only to find a ghostly presence
inserts itself between him and his bride saying "I am Venus. You have
married ME not her!" After several days of total failure to consummate the
marriage, and goaded by the tears of his bride, he goes to an ambiguous
priest called Palombus who agress for a price to resolve the problem.
Palombus deals in necromancy and the black arts and after certain rituals
gives the bridegroom a letter which he takes at midnight to a cross roads
and waits for a ghostly procession to pass by. It does, and among the riders
is a beautiful but lewd woman who is wearing his ring. The bridegroom gives
the letter to the demon at the head of the procession, who compels Venus to
hand the ring back. But he also comments that divine retribution will soon
overwhelm Palombus for his dabbling in the black arts. The bridegroom goes
home and has no more problems with his marriage bed, but Palombus commits
suicde by vicious self mutilation in the hope of appeasing God's wrath.

The second version I know is in the Kaiserkronik, a Middle High German epic
of the mid 12th C. The story is also set in post-Constantine Rome but the
victim is a bachelor not a bridegroom. While playing ball with his brother
he kicks it into a pagan temple compound which has been boarded up and
declared out of bounds by the Chistiam Emperor. The young man climbs the
wall to get his ball back, sees a statue of a naked woman and becomes
totally infatuated so that he looses all interest in anything else. He puts
his ring on her finger in a symbolic marriage. His dismayed friends find an
ambiguous priest who succeeds in breaking the spell and retrieving the ring
but at high cost to himself.

There is no English translation of the Kaiserkronik and I am endebted to
Prof. Frank Shaw of Bristol for this information but I can't at the moment
lay hands on his letter to me.

A third - and Christianised - version of this is to be found summarised in
Sabine BARING-GOULD: Curious myths of the Middle-Ages (1877) page 226. (A
wonderful compendium of popular lore - ransack second hand shops for a copy
if you can.) In this version a knight puts his ring on the finger of the
Virgin Mary while playing ball and finds he cannot get it off afterwards. He
takes this to be a sign that he is 'betrothed' to Our Lady, renounces the
world and becomes a monk. No supernatural rescue for HIM!!!!!

Brenda M. C.

**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

May 2024
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager