medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear All
Forgive me butting in on this conversation, 'cos I know nothing...
However, I had occasion this week to read an article in Journal of Medieval
History 1 (1975), pp. 43-69, by Gabrielle M. Spiegel: 'The Cult of Saint
Denis and Capetian Kingship'.
In it she wrote (I hope I've got this right) that the Oriflamme was
supposedly a gift from Charlemagne, but in fact was the standard of the
Vexin, 'which had devolved to the king when the Vexin was added to the royal
domain in the reign of Philip I'.
Does this mean it carried symbolic devices (too early for anything but the
simplest heraldry, perhaps) appropriate to the Vexin?
And now a really stupid question, but one prompted by the descriptions of
the Oriflamme posted over the last couple of days. Charlemagne's Oriflamme
couldn't by any chance have been a captured Moorish battle standard?
Best wishes
Graham
****************************************
Dr Graham Jones
Lecturer in English Topography
University of Leicester
Centre for English Local History
Marc Fitch Historical Institute
5 Salisbury Road
Leicester LE1 7QR
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0)116 252 2764
Fax: +44 (0)116 252 5769
e-Mail: [log in to unmask]
Web pages: http://www.le.ac.uk/elh/grj1
-----Original Message-----
From: denis hue [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 07 June 2001 17:03
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Oriflamme
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Cf. Ph. Contamine, « L'oriflamme de Saint-Denis aux XIVe et XVe siecles »,
Annales de l'Est, t. 25, 1973, p. 179-245.
Chris Laning wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> So . . . I know this is an elementary question, but what is the
> current consensus (if any) on what the Oriflamme actually looked
> like? Was there just one, or were there many, and if many, were they
> all alike? I seem to remember seeing a remarkable diversity of
> descriptions of its possible color, shape, decoration and so forth.
> I'm teaching a class on banners and standards at the end of next
> month and would welcome brief descriptions or references.
>
> At 9:38 AM -0700 6/6/01, Christopher Crockett wrote:
> >[log in to unmask] wrote:
> >
> >>...There are also many individual studies.
> >
> >modesty forbade the mention of:
> >
> >James Bugslag, "Ideology and Iconography in Chartres Cathedral: Jean
Clement
> >and the Oriflamme," Zeitschrift fur Kunstgeschichte, vol. 61,
> >no. 4 (1998), 491-508
>
> --
> _________________________________________________________
> O Chris Laning
> | <[log in to unmask]>
> + Davis, California
> _________________________________________________________
>
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