medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear Brenda!
It's good to hear your voice again! I hope you are well.
>EVEN THO he has come to totally different conclusions from mine.
I don't think so. The persons are different, but the circumstances are quite
similar. As regards the marriage of H & A, I agree to MOST of your
arguments. Our comments are complementary, but not contradictious. Please,
consider: You talked about circumstances, social restrictions etc., I talked
about motives and psychic conditions.
>Either BOTH had to "enter religion" or neither.
Many so-called conventions and "rules" of the 12th century are taken for
apodictic, today. Nevertheless, you will find a lot of exceptions. For
example, St. Raingard, the mother of Peter the Venerable, asked her man to
accept her conversion to religious life WITHOUT assuming that he did the
same. And some centuries ago, St. Radegunde entered Sainte-Croix in
Poitiers, and Clothar, her royal husband, continued to be king. In the 12th
century, the canonical law demanded agreement between the partners, but not
more. See Ivo von Chartres, Decretum VIII, ch. 127: "Ut nec pro religiosa
vita vir ab uxore nisi consensu eius recedat." The husband can't enter
religious life without his wife's "placet". This sentence sounds like
emancipation, don't it?
All the best
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ms B.M. Cook" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [M-R] Abelard and Heloise: marriage
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Dear List,
> As I am working on the life of Astralabe, Abelard's son, I have given his
> parents' marriage, and the circumstances of his conception, some
> consideration. I have a paper summarising my research that I will happily
> send to any interested party. Please e-mail me
mailto:[log in to unmask]
> although it is a bit long to send as an attachment.
> Like Werner Roble I have also done some work on Heloise's background.
Werner
> Roble has published my paper on Heloise on his web site EVEN THO he has
come
> to totally different conclusions from mine.
> However I am - like Werner Robl - an amateur in mediaeval history.
>
> I believe that Heloise was herself illegitimate and the child of a priest
> and a nun. Thus her attitude to marriage might be somewhat casual.
> (Christopher Brooke: "The medieval idea of marriage" thinks that Heloise
was
> the child of clerical concubinage.)
>
> Heloise's refusal to marry Abelard seems to have arisen from her belief
that
> marriage and "philosophy" were incompatible. Marriage would also have
> sabotaged Abelard's promotion prospects in the church.
>
> Abelard wanted to marry her out of a chivalrous sense of honour and also
in
> order to put himself right with his colleague, Canon Fulbert, whom he had
> betrayed and dishonoured by his seduction of Fulbert's ward. Please note
> that it was FULBERT who was betrayed and dishonoured by the seduction, not
> Heloise. The offence was against the woman's family, not to the woman
> herself. Her consent - or otherwise - was irrelevant.
>
> It was impossible for Heloise to resist Abelard's pressure to marry her.
She
> had eloped with him, she was a guest of his family and she had no other
> economic support (that we know of) for herself or her child. Also he legal
> guardian, Canon Fulbert, had consented to the marriage. It was his consent
> that mattered, not her's. She was probably also justly afraid of how her
> uncle would treat her on her return. In fact Abelard records that she
later
> fled from her uncle's abuse although it is not clear whether this was
> physical or only verbal.
>
> Once Abelard (in his post-calamity state of mind) had resolved to become a
> monk, Heloise was OBLIGED to become a nun. Because they were a married
> couple, either BOTH had to "enter religion" or neither. Once again
Heloise's
> course of action was dictated by the men she was dependent on.
>
> She simply had to make the best of a bad job - as women always had done
up
> to the 1960s in the Western World and still have to in much of the rest of
> the world. It is interesting that Heloise EXPRESSED an independent
> expression, and that it was recorded. I do not believe Abelard "faked"
> Heloise's anti-marriage views. For one thing he was a man with a high
regard
> for truth even if his view of truth was (like everyone's) biassed. But he
> was clearly surprised that she did not fall on his neck in thankfulness
when
> he announced they were to marry.
>
> Sorry if this is a bit long.
> Comment on the bones in a sequal ...
>
> Brenda M.C.
>
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