medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
The web site recommended by Fr. Ambrose gives a 1514 Camaldolese printed Missal as evidence for the second half being in use, cites an earlier occurrence in the writings of Savanarola from 1495 and mentions a doubtful MS instance from Antoninus of Florence in 1459. This tracks the Carthusian evidence: the full formula is found in the writings of Johann Justus Lanspergius (Landsberg) in 1539, in printed Missals of 1500, 1521, 1529, 1551 and 1562. Yves Gourdel appears to have seen a Carthusian MS of 1484 with the full formula and he cites the paper by Amand Degand, "La culte de la tres sainte Vierge dans la liturgie cartusienne" prepared for a Marian congress in Rome in 1904 which was never published but was found in the Archives of the Grande Chartreuse in the 1950s. Already in the 17thc Charles Le Couteulx in _Annales Sancti Ordinis Cartusiensis_ vol IV, pp. 233-35 referred to Carthusian breviaries of the 13thc that had "Sancta Maria ora pro nobis" added, a 14thc MSS that added to that "pro nobis peccatoribus." Degand cites a 1350 Carthusian breviary with "Sancta Maria ora pro nobis peccatoribus nunc et in hora mortis nostrae" Another breviary of 1420 had the same.
See Yves Gourdel, "La tres sainte Vierge dans l'histoire cartusienne," in _Maria: Etudes sur la sainte Vierge_, vol. 2, ed. Hubert du Manoir (Paris: Beauchesne, 1962_, pp. 627-678 at 635-36.
Dennis Martin
>>> [log in to unmask] 03/02/01 03:41 AM >>>
medieva
l-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Help - this is something I am sure I (a) ought to know and (b) ought to
look up for myself - but we just don't have the sources here. Does anyone
know, off the top of your learned heads, when the final petition of the Ae
Maria - 'pray for us sinners now and in the hour of our deaths' - was
introduced? I used it as part of the explanation for the depiction of the
BVM on medieval tombs but Salvador Ryan suggests it's later and possibly
even post-Tridentine. If no-one knows just like that, I'll have to try to
get to a library with a wider range of medieval sources.
Maddy
Dr Madeleine Gray, in the foothills of God's golden county of Gwent
(Department of Humanities and Science
UWCN Caerleon Campus
PO Box 179
Newport NP18 3YG
Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675
http://humanities.newport.ac.uk/history.html)
'Reading is sometimes an ingenious device for avoiding thought'
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