medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Carolyn Schriber <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>...Rotrou...was sometimes referred to as Rotrou de Neubourg
Neubourg is in SE normandy, I believe. a well-known (though not to me)
family, whose genealogy will be reliably worked out, i should think.
>...he is apparently NOT of the direct line of the counts of Perche
wouldn't be directly of the family, no. it seems that there was a Count
Rotrou IV from 1144 to 1191.
seems a good chance, however, that the name originally belonged to the
Percherons, from the time of Rotrou I, circa 960; by the 12th c. the family
seems to have had a preference for alternately naming their firstborn sons
either Rotrou or Godfrey (though it looks like Rotrou IV
followed R. III, prerhaps because of the death of a brother of the latter
named Godfrey, like Louis VII following L. VI because his older brother,
Philip --named after VI's father-- died young, after that run-in with the
Black Pig).
Bishop/Archbishop R. would, in my unencumbered-by-any-actual-knowledge
reconstruction, be from a collateral family more or less recently allied to
the Percherons through marriage.
e.g., a daughter of Count Rotrou III might have married into a
neighboring (in France or England) family, her firstborn son would have
carried the name of, say, her husband's father, her second (or third
--who would be destined for the clergy) the name of *her* father, especially
if he was a Great Muckety Muck and Heavy Dude (as a Percheron Godfather would
have been).
AB Rotrou might have had, as a younger, clergy-bound son, some of his mother's
dower property in England (greatgrandpappy Godfrey of Mortagne was with Billy
the Bastard @ Hastings and Rotrou III hung out with Henry I). hence his "de
Warwick" appellation.
pure fantasy.
i'm certain that someone with access to actual books could turn up the
truth without much trouble (the Kathlen Thompson article i mentioned
would be a good place to start --i actually bought the book to get it, then,
of course, didn't read it).
>Rotrou replaced Arnulf as seneschal of Normandy in 1163.
there's the answer to Tom's original question about whether or not they were
from the same background. *every*body was from the same background, en ces
temps la.
>As for the date, I know better than to trust Migne on dating...
far as i know Migne did very little in the way of original research, just
followed the sources which he is reprinting, usually.
sometimes they are quite good --Maurist edtions of the 17th-18th c., by
Mabillon, d'Archery, and their ilk, bang-up, state of the art scholarship--
sometimes not.
best from here,
christopher
p.s. my thanks to those who responded to my HOC EST/pilgrims' badge query a
while ago --i've been too covered up with other stuff (like shameless
prosopographical Mare's Nesting) to respond, but hope to soon. your thoughts
are much appreciated, however.
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