medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
John,
The first question you raise is a vexing one. Bernard Hamilton has argued
for the numbers "relaxed" being lower than previously thought; but I am
not expert enough on the subject to join the controversy that claim
engendered. The question of indirect power, in any form, can be seen as
using coercion, including the most extreme measures, while remaining
undefiled. Lay justice was decidedly bloody-handed well into more recent
times, and the ecclesiastical judges must have had a solid idea of the
measures likely to be employed against relapsed heretics. Heresy was seen
as treason, and judicial penalties for treason in the Roman law tradition
always were draconian. Ironically, this equation was made by Frederick II
Hohenstauffen, himself suspected by some of heretical ideas.
The obligation to the lay power for coercion of deviants, as for
protection, may well have added to the late-medieval pattern of lay rulers
gaining control of the local clergy through concordats and the like. This
is a large topic I do not have time to address just before leaving town for
the weekend.
Tom Izbicki
At 11:26 AM 2/16/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Tom Izbicki wrote:
>
>"Of course, the practice of turning over relapsed heretics to the "secular
>arm" combined the prohibition on shedding blood with the employment of
>indirect means of coercion."
>
>Dear Tom: Although accurate, your statement inadvertently softens reality.
>Was the "turn over" normal, even routine? Was the "indirect means of
>coercion" especially bloody? And in what context was the killing bloody,
>given the punishments generally wreaked on "criminals" in the middle ages?
>Lastly, was clerical practice in this regard essentially self-defeating
>because, by begging or demanding a service from lay power, it eventually
>empowered that authority to subordinate the church itself?
>
>Yours, John
>
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