Hello Dan
If you check the references that I put on ,they all come from those in the
ranks of the Evidenced Based Health
Literature doesn't always suggest that it is Evidenced Based.It can be
biased in favour of the Drug Companies.It should be based on whether it
works or not.Whether it works depends on results .If you treat an illness
[acute ] and then your still treating it 30yrs later[Chronic] is that
evidenced based or is that lack of evidence
The program below shows the handling of Drug Withdrawl, Detox, Mental and
Physical Illness, Eduacation etc
of some of the most hardened criminals in a Mexico
Before the program was introduced they had been under Psychiatric Care for
30yrs,all still on Heroin.
3 months after it was introduced the Prison Authorities sacked all
Psychiatrists and Psychologists for lack of results
History
A group of inmates were put through the program and then trained to deliver
it. Ensenarda [2000 inmates,mostly Murders and Heroin Addicts] was
specifically chosen ,so it would leave no doubt about its workability.The
whole prison is now set up ,run by the inmates,backed by Goverment as a
Rehab Prison.It is now bringing inmates in from other prisons to
rehabilitate
It is set up as a Pilot program for Goverments of the World to veiw and
Purchase
Mexican Prison
http://www.criminon.org/drugreha/index.htm
Program
http://www.cocaineaddiction.com/ending.html
Research
http://www.cocaineaddiction.com/research_summary.html
The above Results and Evidence can be checked by anyone
Regards
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Mayer <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
<[log in to unmask]>
Date: Friday, 22 December 2000 02:00
Subject: Fw: Re: FW: Teaching EBM
Hey,
This is not a reasonable dialogue, CCHR is also a Scientology front. We can
have a reasoned discussion of mental illness and the ability of psychiatry
to do something constructive about it, but not when we are only looking at a
one sided diatribe against the 'system'. If you want to have a reasonable
discussion of the issues, lets look at the evidence in the literature. And
if it is not good enough, lets get together like 'men (people) of good will'
and design multicenter trials that will be able to get at the evidence.
As much as this listserve is democratic, it should be evidence based and not
religious dogma, regardless of which religion you are dogmatic about.
Happy Holidays to all
Dan Mayer
****************************************************************************
Dan Mayer, MD
Professor of Emergency Medicine
Albany Medical College
47 New Scotland Ave.
Albany, NY, 12208
Ph; 518-262-6180
FAX; 518-262-5029
E-mail; [log in to unmask]
****************************************************************************
>>> Kevin Owen <[log in to unmask]> 12/21/00 03:27AM >>>
Hello Susan
Its good to see someone speaking out about Evidence Based Health not based
on Evidence.
Hows this for an example
As a New York psychiatrist Ron Leifer says,his profession will find a mental
illness in everything and there is no science in it:
"Everyone is neurotic.I have no trouble giving out diagnosis.In my office,I
only see abnormal people.Out of my office,I see only normal people.Its up to
me.Its just a jokeThis is what I mean by this fraud,this arrogant fraud...To
make some kind of pretention that this is a scientific statement
is....damaging to the culture..."
Sciences parisite:The Old "Science Positioning Ploy"
http://www.cchr.org/indxcchr.htm
It will be interesting to see how long they can keep the pretense up.It is
getting harder to do that now as more people are asking questions even
inside the ranks
Regards
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
>From: Susan Kaiser, M.D. <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
><[log in to unmask]>
>Date: Thursday, 21 December 2000 08:58
>Subject: Re: FW: Teaching EBM
>
>
>>Dear Dan,
>>
>>I agree that these are crucial questions. If you can't answer them, it's
>>hard to pursue and evidence-based approach oneself, much less advocate its
>>use to others.
>>
>>>> 1. What ideas do people have about dealing with the frustration
>frequently
>>>> encountered by the realization that for many clinical questions, there
>are
>>>> no evidence-based answers? How do you keep the residents from
dismissing
>>>> the whole concept because they cannot yet always find answers in a
>prompt
>>>> manner?
>> This represents a failure of concept rather than of practice.
Real
>>solid answers are lacking to many or most medical questions no matter what
>>approach you use, EBP or otherwise. The entire goal of evidence-based
>>practice is to find, recognize, and use the best available evidence. If
>>you are all alone in the desert, maybe the best evidence is in your head.
>>If you are at a major medical center, it's likely to be electronically
>>available from the library. And the best evidence may not be very good,
at
>>that, but part of EBP is being able to assess how good the evidence is.
>>Know the quality of the basis for your decisions, and use the best you can
>>get. That's what EBP teaches you how to do.
>> Residents might be interested to know how little of what they are
>>authoritatively taught is based on real evidence. It might be good for
>>them to know this.
>>
>>>> 2. (A question and a request) How valuable do people find the process
of
>>>> structuring the clinical question, per Sackett and others? While it
>makes
>>>> sense to me to have the residents think about the question they are
>asking
>>>> and focus it, the formal structuring of patient/problem, intervention,
>>>> comparison, and outcome doesn't always assist in the process of
>searching
>>>> for the answer - the search engines do not accept this structure to a
>>>> query. Thus the request to those of you who are working on the FPIN as
>>>> well as others - wouldn't it be nice if we had a database that could be
>>>> searched by structuring and then asking your question in this format,
or
>>>> at least in a way that facilitated the process of moving from the
>clinical
>>>> situation to the information needs in a relatively direct way.
>> My thought about this, and I'll try to be less long-winded, is
that
>>the primary purpose of the properly formulated question is to define what
>>you are asking, to enable you to decide whether you have found an answer,
>>and to help determine what may be missing from what you have found. I
>>agree completely that the question isn't much help in doing a search, as
it
>>is generally so specific that if you got any hits you'd be very lucky!
>>
>>I will be very interested in what others have to say.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Sue
>>
>>Susan Kaiser, MD
>>Department of Surgery, Box 1259
>>The Mount Sinai School of Medicine
>>New York, NY 10029
>>
>>[log in to unmask]
>
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