Dear Richard
there's a useful note in Wakefield and Evans, Heresies of the High Middle
Ages, pp. 592-3, stating that early Cathars saw John the Baptist as a
'malign spirit' because of baptising Christ with water (and hence hindering,
to their eyes, his mission); but that some of the later Italian cathars
'corrected' themselves on this error. I have a feeling that I have seen the
belief against John (again, the emphasis being on baptism by water) attested
in deposition records (there are certainly beliefs there on both the
futility and active evil of baptism by water) but I can't verify this at the
moment. It might be worth checking the index to Duvernoy's edition of the
Fournier registers, as an easy place to start...
cheers
john
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask]
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Richard
> Landes
> Sent: 23 March 2000 04:53
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Cathars and John the Baptist
>
>
> At 05:40 AM 3/23/00 +0100, you wrote:
> >What kind of sources, may I ask? Inquisitional ?
>
> the one i have at hand is Pierre des Vaux de Cernay, Historia Albigensis.
>
> >Stientje
> >--
> >Agis donc de telle sorte que tu traites l'humanité, aussi bien dans ta
> >personne que dans la personne de tout autre, toujours en même temps comme
> >une fin, et jamais simplement comme un moyen.
> >
> >> Van: Richard Landes <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Beantwoord: [log in to unmask]
> >> Datum: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:52:30 -0500
> >> Aan: [log in to unmask]
> >> Onderwerp: Cathars and John the Baptist
> >>
> >> a number of sources claim that the Cathars didn't like John
> the Baptist.
> >> any reason other than he baptized with water (matter)?
> >>
> >> rlandes
> >>
> >
>
> Richard Landes
> Center for Millennial Studies at Boston University Department
> of History
> 704 Commonwealth Ave. Suite 205 226 Bay State Road
> Boston MA 02215 Boston MA 02215
> 617-358-0226 of 358-0225 fax
> 617-353-2558 of 353-2556 fax
> http://www.mille.org [log in to unmask]
>
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