Erminia:
We seem to have managed to cross-post on this ...
"
Catullo did wrote poems to Lesbia, but this is something else.
Saffo - you are right - lived on an island called Lesbo... (so the
adjective lesbian is derived from that island).
"
I should say for starters that I wasn't trying to deny that Sappho is/was
gay [with whatever qualifications when talking about pre-nineteeth century
sexuality] -- the English nineteenth century attempt to define her as
heterosexual seems to me fairly ludicrous. And I'd entirely agree that her
second fragment (as is "To Aphrodite") is addressed to a woman. It was
more the general trend of your argument that I was quarrelling with.
Lesbos probably had an association with non-heterosexual females
independently of Sappho, as there's the (roughly contemporary) Anacreon
epigram:
ANACREON: Fragment 15
That blond-haired boy, young Eros
Has tossed me his ball,
Sent me to play catch
with the girl in laced sandles.
No luck however; she's from Lesbos,
That fine island, turns me down flat
Since my hair has gone grey,
pants after her other.
[If anyone's interested, the latest of my translations from Anacreon should
be appearing in the next issue of +London Magazine+. End of ego-trip.]
"
One of the poems that Catullo dedicated to Lesbia, before she betrayed
him - is indeed a translation in Latin of a poem
that Saffo wrote for a woman (from this the connections between the two
loved women). That poem you refer to is not at all patriotic, far from
that: it is a poem of jealousy: "Ille mi par esse deo videtur.../ Ille, si
fas est, superare dios."
(I hope my memories of latin are correct).
"
You're doing better than me -- I had to look it up to check. But I didn't
mean to suggest that Catullus' poem was patriotic -- only that if (if I may
be allowed the emphatic shout) +Sappho+ had written a poem about Lesbia, it
would have been patriotic.
"
(Robin, one question: Why were you so vehemently using capital letters:
don't they say that it is like shouting? : )
"
Because I'm restricting myself to plain-text -- Courier needs tarting up
(unfortunate phrase in this context) to remedy deficiencies of tone. And I
do try to avoid smileys.
"
Everybody knows that Saffo did make an ethical appreciation of love between
women
(and in general on sensual love between individuals of the same sex).
"
I'll give you the first, certainly -- but (the Phaon nonsense apart) -- I
can't think of any of her poems or fragments that show much interest in men
as sexual objects, either for herself or each other.
"
She was as well the promoter of a special congregation of young noble women
to be educated to music and art.
"
Possibly -- not proven.
"
Anyhow, sorry not to be so kin about being associated to Saffo.
Would you like to be compared to Catullo?
"
I'd ADORE (if I may be allowed the capitals) to be compared to Catullus.
Though I must admit, and not simply on the grounds of sexuality, I'd be
much less pleased to be compared to Caesar (Julius) as Catullus presents
him.
Robin Hamilton
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