Dear all
Rearrange the following words - nasty, worms, can, opened.
Right! I apologize to all list members North, West (and if you're in Eire -
South) of the border. The terms included in the example are just that an
example.
Yes, to refer to what John was saying in his expanded comments, the Norman
Conquest isn't a very important historical event to the Scots, but to say
that it isn't a major historical event at all is going a bit far (unless of
course you're a Conquest denier ;-)).
When I started compiling the thesaurus I envisaged that it would include
Scottish, Welsh and Irish terms as well as those relating to England. Not
all terms in the thesaurus will be used by everybody but if we are going to
be inclusive rather than exclusive then the more terms the merrier.
Cultural Period
PICTISH already appears in the Cultural Period Class. NORSE and other
cultural identifiers will be included
Political Period
If we include the homographs JAMES I (SCOTLAND) and JAMES I (BRITAIN) and
JAMES II (SCOTLAND) and JAMES II (BRITAIN) then there shouldn't be a
problem. From the sources we've looked at Burke's Peerage etc. the Kings of
Scotland stop getting a different numerical identifier after JAMES I and VI.
Therefore JAMES II (BRITAIN) is not also JAMES VII (SCOTLAND) and as such
Martin's point of what ELIZABETH II is in Scotland becomes irrelevant.
Having said that I'm sure someone out there is going to tell me different.
Historical Period
Specific events such as the BATTLE OF PRESTONPANS, BATTLE OF BANNOCKBURN etc
will also be included as well as any events relevant to any of the home
nations.
Artistic Period
As I mention above anyone using the thesaurus doesn't have to use terms they
don't need. Any terms needed will be added.
Okay so now we've got a thesaurus that includes
a) all the home nation's monarchs/rulers
b) historical events
c) cultural periods pertinent to the geography of an area
d) artistic styles relating to the various periods/regions
The examples that I placed on the archive were merely that and were done
very quickly. If we want to have an inclusive thesaurus then it's necessary
for those of you not in England to inform us of our errors and we will
rectify them.
Just because I work in England for English Heritage doesn't mean I'm
ignoring those of you in Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Eire.
More to the point, if we're getting regionalistic about it I'm from
Nottinghamshire and I'm going to demand the inclusion of the Kings of Mercia
and the rulers of the Five Danish Boroughs be included. As well as ROBIN
HOOD and BRIAN CLOUGH etc. (and yes, Duncan, I know he's from Derbyshire!)
I look forward, albeit with some trepidation, to your comments
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Newman, Martin [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 08 February 2000 14:09
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: PERIODS - Timeline Thesaurus
I'd just like to add to this discussion that I think this is a good idea as
it gets round the need to define start and end dates for cultural and
stylistic periods which can be open to dispute as they are a matter of
interpretation. Applying dates to the periods on this list will take us back
to the problem that we are trying to escape from and also prevent it from
being used across the whole country rather than just England.
As this is only an example of what can be done and not a finished thesaurus
there will need to be discussion on individual terms as with all the other
reference data lists. There are some problems still to be addressed for
example:
If Scotland is to be included there will be discrepancies in the titles of
some monarchs e.g. Elizabeth II is not the II in Scotland as Elizabeth I was
only queen of England. This can be resolved and so there is no reason not to
expand this to cover Scotland and for that matter how about including Welsh
rulers and events.
Some prime ministers had more than one term of office with a break in
between e.g. Churchill. Should this be one period or two?
Some thought will also need to be given as to how terms from this thesaurus
can be used together to double index when recording.
------------------------------------------
Martin Newman
Heritage Data
National Monuments Record
English Heritage
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