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This list has been getting way ahead of me and I am making no attempt to keep up with the various debates, but one did catch my eye. That of Johnson Cheu who said (in part): "......if we are no closer to understanding these "hot button" issues, then why have the discussion at all?" is because they never go away. As soon as one generation comes to an understanding and resolution, a new generation comes along that requires us to go backwards, yet again, to discuss and debate. In the Deaf UK listserv there has been a flurry of discussion and debate about oralism and cochlear implants and other assistive listening devices. To me, they are nothing new. But when you discover the ages of some of the people raising these issues - teenagers and youngsters - you soon discover that it has all come around yet again. There is no real resolution. Those who believe in "disability" (Deafness) as a medical problem, are still very much in evidence. It's no good saying it's the older generation, the old way of thinking. That's crap. The influence is still very strong. You must remember we live in a world that is constructed around the five senses, with mobility and intellect (unimpaired). Which seems to say, if you deviate from this model, woe betide you. If you take a quick look at history, it's all about the movement of people, it's all about us vs them, it's all about those who would rule vs those who would be ruled, it's all about ideas battling for supremacy, the strong vs the weak (or should I say violence/ force vs the pacifist). At least that's my reading of history. There are people who write in to Deaf UK bemoaning that they don't understand why these arguments take place. If only they would do a little investigating into the history of deafness it might throw a little light. The deaf community (and deaf people) continue to be rent by the medical vs the social model and the twain never meet. That is why the issues and arguments go around and around and around. At times I despair of humanity, and wish that it would just follow the pied piper of Hamilton and into the sea and just drown. It would be cathartic alright, but it wouldn't resolve anything. :-) Tony --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Deaf & Hearing Arts List - Join Talk,Sign &Create at - http://www.eGroups.com/list/talksigncreate/ Staying in San Francisco? Your Bed & Breakfast Host, Doreen Bermudez, welcomes you with open arms. Phone on: (415) 285 7419 Write to: 3877 Army Street (Cesar Chavez) San Francisco, CA 94131, USA Email: [log in to unmask] Brought to you by Deaf Man, SIGN! Productions> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%