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Dear Henry, Julia et alia, >Surely Hodierna (hodiernus/a/um) is the adjective from Hodie? It occurs occasionally as a given name for women in the 12th c. No one here is more onomonastically challenged than I, particularly in anthroponominiaical matters, *however*, my limited, _ad hoc_ and haphazard experience with things chartularical sugests to me that this intuitive supposition would only be true *if* the name were of Latin origin originally, as it were. (And I expect to be brought up short with a corrective if *my* supposition is not the case). The names (people or places) which appear in Latin texts (charters or narratives) in this period are clerical transcriptions/translations/transpositions/whatever of vernacular (O.F., O.E., etc.) forms into the language of the written word (Latin). Thus, "Hildulph's farm" (or it's O.F. equivalent) became an elegant "_Hildulphi Villa_" in an 1028 document; _Hondervilla_ in c. 1250; _Heudrevilla_ in 1300; and in 1736 arrived (in writing) at its present improbale _Houdreville_. (Also, this is a typical example of one way a "personal" name becomes incorporated into a "place" name.) Your etymology starts from the Latin, which is, to my mind at least, backyswords. As Isadore of Saville (Texas), one of the major patrons of this list, would say. Dave Postles' find (Monique Bourin and Pascal Chareille, _Genese Medievale de l'Anthroponymie Moderne Tome II-2 Persistences du Nom Unique. Designation et anthroponymie des femmes ...) puts me in mind of a c. 1970 French 2 vol. reference work on name-forms which I thought enough of to photocopy a few years ago but cannot lay hands on nor find in my U. library's catalogue at present. The thing was *really* good, as I recall. And getting better with each moment that passes that I can't find it. In any event, checking the old standby, Egger's _Lexicon Nominum Virorum et Mulierum_ (Rome, 1963) drew a blank for Hod-/Odierna. Henry's find: >….Hodiern also occurs as a "scribal error" (?) for bishop Gonotiernus in the episcopal lists for Senlis (Duchesne, "Fastes..."). is of interest, I believe, as another example of the use of the "element" (correct term?) "*tiern-" (or: "*iern*??). I don't have acces to Duchesne, and Chevalier's (_Repetoire des sources du moyen age: Bio-Bibliographie_) common but no less obnoxious habit of translating every Latin name into (what he takes to be) its modern French equivalent keeps me from easily finding out for sure, but the archaic sound of the name "Gonotiernus" leads me to think that this is a Merovingian fellow, which means that his name *might* be on a surviving *original* of that era, but *probably* not, Merovinginian originals being somewhat scarce. Meaning that it may only survive in later copies. Or copies of copies. Or….. I.e., there were plenty of opportunities for piling error upon error; which looks like what must have happened to get from "Gonot-" to "Hod-". John Parsons' review of the Hodiernas of the royal house of Jerusalem would seem to demonstrate (if any demonstration were needed) the very common practice of names--and/or name elements--being passed down in a family for generations (as part of the so-called _namenguten_ of the family), in this case with my "Hodierna of Gometz" seeming to be the (documentable) source of this lineage. Thank you, John. >…K. Baldwin II was, maternally, the grandson of Guy I, lord of Bray and Montlhery in the Parisis (fl. 1071) by Hodierna, lady of la Ferte'-Gometz (or Gaumetz) and of Bures....> That would be, I believe: "la Ferte'-Alais [modern name; East of Etampes]/Gometz. Best to all from here, Christopher ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%