medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear Benjamin,

Ok thanks for the clarification, I had misunderstood. Yes I agree, it seems (from my limited understanding) that the modern doctorate began to develop in Germany in the nineteenth century.

With warmest wishes,

Victoria


From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Benjamin Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 05 June 2019 15:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] 1) thanks for manuscript help, and 2) pre-modern women and university education (particularly re Elena Cornaro Piscopia)
 
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
"But surely the PhD in the modern sense did not exist in the seventeenth century, and therefore to distinguish Elena Cornaro Piscopia not as a dottoressa when her male contemporaries could be described as such without having completed a PhD as we would recognise it, is incorrect."

Dear Victoria,
  
   Thanks for your email. I don't think George was suggesting we refrain from recognizing Elena Cornaro Piscopia as a "dottoressa." I think he was merely pointing out, as you did, that the PhD in the modern sense did not exist in the seventeenth century, so describing Piscopia as the "first female PhD" is inaccurate. Likewise, describing her male contemporary colleagues as holding "PhDs" would be equally inaccurate.

pax,

Benjamin

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 7:07 AM Victoria Leonard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear George,

But surely the PhD in the modern sense did not exist in the seventeenth century, and therefore to distinguish Elena Cornaro Piscopia not as a dottoressa when her male contemporaries could be described as such without having completed a PhD as we would recognise it, is incorrect. 

To answer your request, an interesting example is Beatriz Galindo, nicknamed 'La Latina' (ca. 1465-1534). Her biography is really interesting, and she was clearly exceptionally intellectual and educated, but it doesn't seem that was recognised with formal qualifications.


With warmest wishes,

Victoria Leonard


From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Dave Postles <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 05 June 2019 11:10
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] 1) thanks for manuscript help, and 2) pre-modern women and university education (particularly re Elena Cornaro Piscopia)
 
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Sorry, never use Google - gross tax avoider (pioneer of the Double Irish),
tracker and abuser of personal data (as well as abuser of Linux, IMHO).
No, I prefer to use StartPage or, if necessary, DuckDuckGo.
DP


On Wed, June 5, 2019 9:46 am, George Ferzoco wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>
> Dear medieval-religion colleagues,
>
>
> First of all: thank you, sincerely if belatedly, to the several of you
> who so kindly helped me, on list and off, regarding my query as to the
> numbering of flyleaves in books containing medieval manuscripts. I am
> truly grateful to each of you!
>
> Secondly: today’s Google Doodle draws attention to Elena Cornaro Piscopia
> (1646-1684) as being the first woman to obtain a doctorate. This is
> clearly a mistranslation or misunderstanding: the holder of an Italian
> ‘laurea’ is addressed as ‘dottor[essa]’ but the ‘laurea’ is not the same
> as a ‘PhD’. Elena got a degree in philosophy on 25 June 1678 from the
> University of Padua, but this was a ‘laurea’, not a ‘dottorato’ or ‘PhD’
> in the modern sense of the term.
>
> Elena’s education made me wonder about women in university education
> before her time. Was she in fact the first to obtain a university degree?
> I’ve quickly scanned the matter online, and seen what may be legendary
> accounts of female university graduates and female university lecturers
> such as Bettisia Gozzadini (1209-1261) and Novella d’Andrea (b. 1333). I
> am not aware of documentation for any such pre-Elena university women,
> and I would be very interested to learn from you if you should know
> anything about this.
>
> Thanks so much (again, to those who helped me with the manuscript query,
> as well as with this present one).
>
> Best wishes, George
>
>
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