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Can I just point out that this discussion is not about the validity or usefulness of taking an intersectional approach to diversity in general. It is about a talk that I've been asked to give, via webinar, to a group of Malaysians. It's not about British or American ideas of race, class, gender, or sexual preferences, because none of that translates directly to the Malaysian context. A quick google shows that Malaysia is incredibly complex, with three main ethnic groups, none of which are white or black, three main religious groups, which may be more important an axis of diversity than ethnicity, and a very regressive approach to LGBT+ people, ie sodomy is still illegal. And I'm not even going to guess about potential class issues, although I know that that too is complicated. In no other context would you be urging someone to speak outside of their areas of expertise, and Malaysian intersectionality is, I would wager, out of the areas of expertise of everyone on this list. There is just no way that I, as a white, British, mixed-class woman, have anything that I can say with any authority to Malaysians about their specific intersectional challenges, and there's no way that I, as a professional, would blag my way through that kind of a conversation, and nor would I respect anyone else who did. I've been asked to talk about my area of expertise, which is gender, and frankly I'd be entirely unprofessional if I were to give a talk that is not on brief and outside of my field. None of this has anything to do with the application of intersectional approaches to my work within the UK. If people would like to have a discussion about intersectionality in general, then I think it would be interesting, but please start a new thread. Suw ---- Web: FindingAda.com <http://findingada.com/> Twitter: @findingada <http://twitter.com/findingada> Facebook: AdaLovelaceDay <http://facebook.com/AdaLovelaceDay/> On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 at 13:16, Lucy Yeomans <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Hi all, > > > I totally agree that it is important to keep the nature of responses on > this mailing list constructive, but I would like to advocate the use of > intersectionality in consideration of diversity in STEM. It is certainly > the approach social scientists researching STEM participation/engagement > (such as myself) are increasingly taking in order to consider the different > obstacles faced by, for example, White middle-class women compared to Black > working-class women. I'm happy to point people to some literature if that > is useful. > > > In the meantime I look forward to Suw sharing her findings - anything > which looks at recognition of expertise from those of non-dominant groups > is good! > > > Lucy > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* psci-com: on public engagement with science < > [log in to unmask]> on behalf of Stephanie <[log in to unmask]> > *Sent:* 12 March 2019 10:22 > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [PSCI-COM] Gender diversity in journalism > > Hi all > > There's something that's been confusing me about these responses and I > think Wynn sort of touched on it. The assumption that Suw is talking about > white middle class gender stuff. Even though she's talking... in Malaysia. > I think people have missed that all she said was she wouldn't want to make > any assumptions about some of the local issues that might intersect. Not > that she's not being intersectional. > > Stephanie > > On Mon, 11 Mar 2019, 21:36 Philippa Skett, <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Hello again, > > > > I don’t want anyone to feel like I am honing in on them, as that was not > my intention. > > > > I also already said that no-one has to be any sort of expert to simply > include the concept of intersectionality in a conversation regarding > feminism. > > > > However, I worry about people stating that because someone is already an > “expert” in one topic, they cannot extend their knowledge further, > especially regarding sociology topics that are particularly dynamic. > > > > I also worry that anyone talking about feminist issues isn’t mentioning > intersectionality, as it is an integral part of any liberation effort. > > > > I saw that Suw was collating case studies for gender, and only wanted to > suggest that she include, if possible, studies for more specific > demographics of women or those on intersectionality as a theme. > > > > She can then develop the narrative beyond the assumption that women are a > homogenous group that all have to deal with the same issues, which I think > is too prevalent in science and science communication and is stagnating our > liberation progress. > > > > To be honest, if she doesn’t bring it up at a panel discussion on gender > diversity, someone else no doubt will anyway. > > Anyway, for those asking, the below are some good links to > intersectionality. > > > > This is a really good introduction that explains the idea for those new to > the concept: > https://www.ywboston.org/2017/03/what-is-intersectionality-and-what-does-it-have-to-do-with-me/ > > > > This is also a good intro, but may be for those with an established > understanding in liberation efforts: > > https://mjps.ssmu.ca/2018/04/09/introduction-to-intersectionality/ > > > > A TED talk by the woman who first coined the term, Kimberlé Crenshaw: > > > https://www.ted.com/talks/kimberle_crenshaw_the_urgency_of_intersectionality/up-next?language=en > > > > In a nutshell, intersectionality is a concept, that states that it is > important to understand how characteristics and identifications “intersect” > to form the sum of the barriers people face. > > > > Tackling gender inequality in a manner that doesn’t consider more specific > demographics of women will prove ineffective. > > > > For example, a transwoman will face different barriers to inclusion than a > cis-woman might, but both are still women. > > > > Therefore, in the hope of progressing feminism, we have to look at what > hinders the inclusion of transwomen specifically, as certain issues faced > by transwomen may not apply to someone who identifies with the gender they > were assigned at birth. > > > > Similar examples include understanding the barriers for women who are also > less able-bodied compared to those who are, or understanding what > challenges are faced by women in the LGBT+ community compared to those who > identify as heterosexual. > > > > Intersectionality, although initially coined to help progress feminist > efforts, of course applies across all genders. > > > > It does make liberation efforts seem very complex, but of course, humans > ARE complex and we need to be aware of this if we are going to address > widespread inequality rather than portioning demographics too crudely and > homogenising them. > > > > Hence why I am not a fan of “#WomeninSTEM” efforts or any sort of dialogue > that doesn’t include intersectionality as a clear, central theme. > > > > Of course, I am no intersectional expert, just a humble comms manger, but > I am happy to chat to anyone off this list if you want to discuss the idea > further or the more lacklustre “liberation” efforts within sci comm as a > whole (I could rant for days). > > > > Anyways, I think I am done with posting to this list for the time being! > > > > Thanks all, > > > > Philippa > > > > *Philippa Skett AMRSB* > > *Press & Communications Manager* > > 020 7685 2561 > > 07791 22 15 12 > > > > Preferred pronouns: She/her > > Follow us on Twitter <https://twitter.com/RoyalSocBio>, Facebook > <https://www.facebook.com/RoyalSocBio> and Instagram > <https://www.instagram.com/royalsocbio/> > > Royal Society of Biology | Charles Darwin House | 12 Roger Street | London > | WC1N 2JU > > > > *Outreach and Engagement Award 201* > <http://www.rsb.org.uk/outreach-awards>*9* – applications close *28th > June* > > *Photography Competition* <https://www.rsb.org.uk/photocomp>* 2019* – > Capturing movement – enter by *26th July* > > *The Nancy Rothwell Award 201* > <https://www.rsb.org.uk/get-involved/rsb-awards/nancy-rothwell-award>*9 > specimen drawing competition *– enter by *30th July* > > > > > > *From:* psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto: > [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Rhys Archer > *Sent:* 11 March 2019 12:04 > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [PSCI-COM] Gender diversity in journalism > > > > Hi All, > > > > I understand that perhaps this can be a difficult topic to navigate and > understand all the responses given – however in my experience of running > Women of Science I have come to realise that when talking about gender > gaps, the reality is that if you talk about gender without talking about > intersectionality then what you are really talking is white, able bodied, > neurotypical, middle class, cis – straight, women. Of course, if that is > what is asked then perhaps it may not be within your remit to speak > otherwise, but in my opinion we should all make an effort to identify what > it is we are talking about and if it is in the aim of equality then to make > sure we are doing just that. But I also we are all trying to achieve > equality together, so we should show kindness to others that ask for > direction with such. > > > > Best, > > Rhys > > > > Rhys Archer| School of Materials |D1 James Lighthill Building | Northwest > Composites Centre | The University of Manchester > e: *[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> * > |@PhDArcher > > > > *From:* psci-com: on public engagement with science [ > mailto:[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of *Sujata > Kundu > *Sent:* 11 March 2019 11:25 > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [PSCI-COM] Gender diversity in journalism > > > > Hi All. > > > > I get that everyone has priorities and wants the world to be the best > place it can be, and regarding your point on intersectionality I would > agree that it is important. However, for a bunch of professionals trying to > achieve engagement through cultivating dialogue and sharing experiences, it > breaks my heart to see some people pounce on other people so frequently > within this community. > > > > If someone is asked to contribute in their area of expertise and they’re > sharing that work, remind them that it is great that this is being > discussed, and maybe suggest ways that you might be able to develop the > conversation to be more inclusive in the future. Perhaps say ‘you’re right! > Ed’s piece is great - he actually cites this amazing woman expert, who you > should all read up on’. There are enough ‘well actually’ types in the > world. We don’t need to add to them. > > > > Additionally, asking someone to speak outside of their area of research > when an event has a certain specific remit that I am sure has been chosen > for a specific reason seems unfair. It’s like asking someone like me, who > is just a chemist, to sneak in some stuff about the mechanisms behind stem > cell biology. Surely it is better for people to speak as experts rather > than winging it, especially in this day and age? > > > > The pouncing culture held by a handful on here make this community a very > scary place to ever ask questions, when it really should be a leading > collective of expert minds. We should also be encouraging new people to > join and feel confident to ask those questions, instead of intimidating > them away. Given how much people like Suw do, often for very little thanks > or reward, I find it quite upsetting to see things like this happening. > > > > Rant over. I expect I’ll be pounced in now too... but when you do, could > you try the ‘what went well, even better if’ approach? > > > > Thanks, and sorry to have to say something, but with conversations like > this and British Airways annoying me this morning, I needed to speak up. > > > > Suze. > > -- > > Dr Suze Kundu > > Materials Chemist and Science Communicator > > E: [log in to unmask] > > T: @FunSizeSuze > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 11 Mar 2019, at 09:38, Philippa Skett <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Hi! Me again, > > > > No one needs to be an expert in any sort of field to speak up and say in > forums, like the one you’re attending (or even this one!), that gender > isn’t the only unbalanced voice in journalism. > > > > It also doesn’t take an expert to know that women don’t all face the same > barriers, and ignoring intersectionality is still doing a disservice to > increasing the visibility of women in the media. > > > > Since you’re collating studies on gender, maybe also research how (or even > IF) efforts are being made to increase the voices of other underrepresented > characteristics in media. Use this platform (that you’ve been privileged > enough to be given) to develop the narrative beyond gender, and don’t be > part of the system that is limiting it. > > > > Intersectionality is inherently a universal principle in tackling > inequality, regardless of the target audience. > > > > Maybe this is something for everyone to consider on #IWD2019, the most > hallowed day of all days... > > > > Philippa > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 8 Mar 2019, at 11:11, Suw Charman-Anderson <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Intersectionality is obviously important, but my area of expertise is > gender and that's specifically what I've been asked to speak on. (I'm > actually talking to journalists in Malaysia, and I'm not even going to > pretend that I understand the intersectional issues that need to be > addressed there, and would rather not make assumptions.) > > > > Many of the tactics that can be brought to bear to improve gender balance > can also be used to improve representation along other axes of diversity, > of course. > > > > Suw > > > > > > ---- > > > > Web: FindingAda.com <http://findingada.com/> > > Twitter: @findingada <http://twitter.com/findingada> > > Facebook: AdaLovelaceDay <http://facebook.com/AdaLovelaceDay/> > > > > > > > > On Thu, 7 Mar 2019 at 14:49, Philippa Skett <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Hi Suw, > > > > I wonder if maybe a more intersectional approach would be preferable? > > > > Journalism would benefit from an increase of diversity across multiple > characteristics, not just gender. > > > > Philippa > > > > > > *Philippa Skett AMRSB* > > *Press & Communications Manager* > > 020 7685 2561 > > 07791 22 15 12 > > > > Preferred pronouns: She/her > > Follow us on Twitter <https://twitter.com/RoyalSocBio>, Facebook > <https://www.facebook.com/RoyalSocBio> and Instagram > <https://www.instagram.com/royalsocbio/> > > Royal Society of Biology | Charles Darwin House | 12 Roger Street | London > | WC1N 2JU > > > > > > *From:* psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto: > [log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Suw Charman-Anderson > *Sent:* 07 March 2019 09:45 > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* [PSCI-COM] Gender diversity in journalism > > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm giving a talk in a few weeks on gender diversity in journalism, > running through the stats, what journalist are doing to increase the number > of expert female voices in their stories, and what can be done from a > hiring point of view. I'm away of Ed Yong's great piece from last year: > > > > > https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/i-spent-two-years-trying-to-fix-the-gender-imbalance-in-my-stories/552404/ > > > > And I was just wondering what measures other folks take to increase the > number of female voices, and to make sure that women aren't portrayed as > victims (as they mostly are in news media). > > > > I'd love your thoughts on the matter! > > > > Suw > > > > > > ---- > > > > Web: FindingAda.com <http://findingada.com/> > > Twitter: @findingada <http://twitter.com/findingada> > > Facebook: AdaLovelaceDay <http://facebook.com/AdaLovelaceDay/> > > > > ********************************************************************** > psci-com how-to: Once subscribed, send emails for the list to > [log in to unmask] If not subscribed, either subscribe here > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=psci-com or send requests > for items to be posted on your behalf to [log in to unmask] > To unsubscribe (or silence messages while away) send an email (any subject) > to [log in to unmask] with one of the following messages (ignoring > text in brackets) • signoff psci-com (to leave the list) • set psci-com > nomail (to stop receiving messages while on holiday) • set psci-com mail > (to resume getting messages) Contact list owner at > [log in to unmask] Small print and JISCMail acceptable use > policy https://sites.google.com/site/pscicomjiscmail/the-small-print > Contact Jisc Helpline: Email: [log in to unmask], Telephone: 0300 300 2212 > ********************************************************************** > > > ------------------------------ > > The Royal Society of Biology is a registered charity (registered in > England and Wales No. 277981) and is incorporated by Royal Charter. > Registered Office: Charles Darwin House, 12 Roger Street, London, WC1N 2JU. > > VAT Registration Number: GB 719 029 238. > > This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the > use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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