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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture There are certainly streams near and under Holy Trinity, Bradford on Avon, but I have no idea whether any of them have been invoked as ‘Holy’, apart from one named ‘Ladywell’, which is some distance from the church. I have seen reference to another ‘Ladywell’ but that is even further away. Springs come and go in this area, and that is probably the case of any place on or near a spring line. After the very heavy rain and subsequent flooding in 2013 one came up in the tower vestry. It was rather lovely hearing it bubbling away at quiet times, but was not really practical and I think was channelled away. It may be worth consulting antiquarian sources such as John Aubrey’s ‘Wiltshire Collections’, though JA Jackson’s heavy editing may have removed some. There is a curious structure on the outside of the south wall of the chancel at Holy Trinity which no one seems to have ever shed any light on. I have no photo, but could it have been a shrine and involved a Holy Well? Anne From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of James Bugslag Sent: 12 February 2019 16:30 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [M-R] Stream under church medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture As far as cures of the insane are concerned, there is some evidence that they were explicitly given special status in some pilgrimage churches, in which their unstable status was taken into account, generally by chaining them up in the church for the protection of themselves and others. The best documented instance of this that I know involved the Church of Notre-Dame d'Avioth in northern France where, by the 17th century, a "chamber of the possessed" had been built onto the church, in which the "possessed" were tied to a beam while they awaited a cure. The chamber was demolished in 1657. As well, in the Church of St Maximinus at Trier, demoniacs were apparently chained to a staircase in the church or left in the crypt. Although there is no reference to the demoniacs at Avioth being plunged into cold water, there is a stream running beneath the church which was reputed for miraculous cures. Streams beneath churches were, I have come to believe, far more common than one might suspect. I believe I've read that there was a stream beneath Ely Cathedral, but this sort of feature has generally been of such negligible interest that references can be hard to find. Cheers, Jim _____ From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > on behalf of Richard Legault <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > Sent: February 11, 2019 8:03:55 PM To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [M-R] Stream under church medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture There is the Puits des Saints-Fort in the crypt of Chartres Cathedral, the water of which "était réputée miraculeuse : elle guérissait du ” mal des ardents ” (selon les interprétations, il s’agirait de la maladie nerveuse connue aujourd’hui comme l’ergotisme, ou bien d’une sorte d’érysipèle gangreneux)". See: https://www.chartres-csm.org/fr/la-cathedrale/elements-remarquables/ and: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k66892b/f27.image.texteImage On cold water cures for mental illness my first instinct would be to consider the role of holy water in rituals of exorcism. Cheers, Richard J Legault On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 5:13 PM Gross-Diaz, Theresa <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > wrote: medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Isn’t there an underground stream or well under les Saintes Maries de la Mer? TGD From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > On Behalf Of Thomas Izbicki Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 12:06 PM To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [M-R] Topics? medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Graham, I'd be interested in anything you find on the second question. Nothing I have read on ministry to the mentally ill (canon law, Sentences commentaries or pastoral manuals) touches on seeking miraculous cures. Tom Izbicki _____ From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > on behalf of Graham Jones <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 12:54:14 PM To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [M-R] Topics? medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Dear All Well, here's a couple of items for Shan and others. I'm preparing a pilgrimage conference paper for publication and I'd be delighted to add to my stock of cases in which (a) a stream flows under a church or other religious building, feeding a pool in the building held to be efficacious in aiding cures (b) mentally ill people seek a miraculous cure which involves being plunged into cold water (with or without the saying of mass) Kind regards Graham On 11/02/2019 17:08, Madeleine Gray wrote: medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture We have been a bit quiet lately, haven't we - I have a suspicion that more and more people are discussing things on Twitter (we've had a lengthy thread on reuse of medieval tomb carvings, for example). I think, Shan, that what we discuss depends on what people raise - over to you! Maddy --- Prof. Madeleine Gray University of South Wales http://www.heritagetortoise.co.uk <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heritag etortoise.co.uk&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cb0cb570f42 f448d7d1c308d6904afd88%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C0%7C63685504 9095312664&sdata=Wf3WZaseC%2BbrbVhz2859aX4IRJJ2qPV6OWDtUvZxUr0%3D&reserved=0 > http://twitter.com/heritagepilgrim <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com %2Fheritagepilgrim&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cb0cb570 f42f448d7d1c308d6904afd88%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C0%7C63685 5049095312664&sdata=VMWAuRi6Kd9D3fz9Y2H2SvmWpmBrm05%2FWYmfti%2FoKfY%3D&reser ved=0> 'Lle taw Duw nid doeth yngan' (St Fagan, allegedly) On 11/02/2019 16:57, Richard Legault wrote: medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Right on, Shan. I for one would love to see more on medieval science, technology and communication (both texts and artifacts). I'd also like to see more on Jewish and Moslem perspectives and influences, especially in places and times where co-operation predominated over conflict. Richard J Legault On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 10:01 AM Shan Morgain <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > wrote: medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture It is possible I have been on this list at a bad time when only a narrow range of topics has come up. It doesn't appear to be about mediaeval religion and history. It's just about Christianity and very narrow areas of that. There is a wealth of political perspectives on the Church, its contests with the secular society, its treatment of common people, its heresies. None of that appears here. Shan Morgain Research site <www.mabinogistudy.com <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mabinog istudy.com&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cb0cb570f42f448d 7d1c308d6904afd88%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C0%7C6368550490953 22678&sdata=0iGWReKCbW3ceX%2BSeWIxV6RgU6Y5MpPeRJ2UWpB%2FiK4%3D&reserved=0> > Incl. 'The Mabinogi Bibliography' annotated, searchable; c. 2,000 entries. NLW nominated to the UK Web Archive as 'an important part of Wales documentary heritage' (2017) Adran y Cymraeg, Swansea University , Wales. Academia <https://swansea.academia.edu/ShanMorgain <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fswansea.ac ademia.edu%2FShanMorgain&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cb 0cb570f42f448d7d1c308d6904afd88%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C0%7 C636855049095322678&sdata=5bkTz6TvlUnd6oPwXQ6lhLmrmYbtfbBJKuvota3PhV4%3D&res erved=0> > Resident Casnewydd/ Newport, Wales. ASWWE (Association for Welsh Writing in English) GENCAS (Centre for Research into Gender and Culture) MEMO (Centre for Mediaeval and Early Modern Research) RIAH (Research Institute for Arts and Humanities SMF (Society for Medieval Feminist Scholarship) SURF (Swansea University Research Forum) ............................................................................ ............. ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion 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<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jiscmai l.ac.uk%2Fmedieval-religion&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU% 7Cb0cb570f42f448d7d1c308d6904afd88%7Cb92d2b234d35447093ff69aca6632ffe%7C1%7C 0%7C636855049095342687&sdata=NLfdqdY%2BTEzP6gvpzJvbhOB3rMtJbsVb71C2XweYmRM%3 D&reserved=0> ********************************************************* Dr Graham Jones FSA FRHistS FRGS Oxford University School of Geography and the Environment ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> For 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