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Alan:
What you indicated is true for salt water, or brine. The mechanism is essentially correct. Brine is used as an industrial quenchant for a number of things.
However, in the case of blood, I found something completely unexpected. I expected that it would behave like salt water. However, it did not. Immediately upon quenching the probe (method ASTM D6200), the Inconel 600 probe was immediately coated with a brown layer of cooked fats, and red blood cells. Think of the brown mass that you might see when cooking hamburger on the skillet - the remnants of hamburger from cooked blood.. t was identical to that. This adherent coating on the probe insulated the probe so that heat transfer was extremely slow - instead of the very fast quench rate that you would expect doing a brine quench.
This was a very surprising result, and showed that no even modern high hardenability alloys would harden or quench properly.
Scott
Blood is basically saline soln(+proteins) and salt water is a better quenchant than pure water.
The reason for that is (I understand from CSS) that as water is heated locally, salt microcrystals form and they act as nuclei so that large steam bubbles burst rather than expanding further, and an insulating layer of steam bubbles never forms around the quenched object. So it is more effectively cooled.
Alan Williams
On 03 December 2018 at 16:32 Scott Mackenzie <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
All:
For any one interested, here is the link to the presentation.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ksopj9108ndhsv/Beer%2C%20Blood%20and%20Urine.pdf?dl=0
I would appreciate any comments (good or bad).
Scott
D. Scott MacKenzie, PhD, FASM
Research Scientist - Metallurgy
Houghton International, Inc.
610-666-4007 Office
484-467-0285 Cell
From: Arch-Metals Group <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 11:18 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Blood as quenchants for knives, etcScott,
While not the original poster, I would like a copy of the Paper/Presentation.
Thanks,
Terry
From: Arch-Metals Group <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Scott Mackenzie
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Blood as quenchants for knives, etc
No I never did. I gave the paper at a conference, but never published it in a journal. I tried in a journal that is academic in nature, but was turned down because it didn't talk about nano, additive manufacturing, or what ever the current buzzwords are for funding of academics in the US.
I have some time off - I might try again....Do you want a copy of the paper/presentation?
D. Scott MacKenzie, PhD, FASM
Research Scientist - Metallurgy
Houghton International, Inc.
610-666-4007 Office
484-467-0285 Cell
From: Arch-Metals Group <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Klaas Remmen <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 6:22 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Blood as quenchants for knives, etc
Dear Scott
Have you published the results of this research? I have been contacted with a question about this and remembered this conversation in the mailinglist.
Thanks for your answer
Klaas Remmen
Op do 17 mrt. 2016 om 23:57 schreef Scott Mackenzie <[log in to unmask]>:
Once i get more references, I will publish. One thing I can say is that blood would be a terrible quenchant. It wouldn't get even high hardenability modern steels hard.
Sent via the Samsung GALAXY SŪ 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Daniel Tokar <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 3/17/2016 18:25 (GMT-05:00)
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Blood as quenchants for knives, etcHi: Yes! This will help a lot. My only addition would be seawater. It is not so fast as brine but I remember reading of a couple cases of its use.
Thanks
Daniel Tokar
The Willow Forge
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Mackenzie <[log in to unmask]>
To: ARCH-METALS <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2016 3:49 pm
Subject: Blood as quenchants for knives, etcAll:
Hope everyone is well.
I am looking for other references to the use of blood (animal or human) used as quenchants. I have a few - mostly an Icelandic legend, and a few references from 1100AD Europe. However I would really like more.
I have recently done a series of cooling curves on bovine blood, urine, beer, and whole milk. As a control, tap water was used. Before i publish the results, I would like to find something more references.
I think that this is the first time that anyone has measured cooling curves of blood, and determined the heat transfer coefficients as a function of part surface temperature.
I will be happy to share the results.
Scott
Sent via the Samsung GALAXY SŪ 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
--
Vriendelijke groet
Klaas Remmen
Zaakvoerder
Remmen bvba
Adolf Greinerstraat 12
2660 Hoboken
BTW: BE 0641.706.864
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