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I can’t find the reference right now but I think the New Scientist Live event has a list of perks on one listing/site including “full access to the event” which equates to ~£25 per day. Going off the government site I thought it would perhaps constitute a perk which is equivalent to the payment – and is therefore classified as work, and payment is due. I know you don’t agree but I still feel it’s very unfair to compare an event run by a public museum with that run by well established company. I’m guessing the overall funding for NS Live is £1-2million. NS Live also specifically stated in their blurb (if I remember rightly) – “we don’t need these volunteers to run out event, they’re just a nice addition” which seemed to me to be a non-justification for non-payment. It doesn’t really hold up, surely. Re. non-profits – I know you mentioned the example of Wellcome Trust, which is clearly a rich beast of an organisations – but I’m pretty sure everyone is paid at their events and they wouldn’t be in this situation. I still think Manchester Museum of Science & Industry (Manchester Science Festival) shouldn’t be in this discussion alongside NS Live. Museums have always relied on volunteers(?). MoSI/Manchester Science Festival also have some other issues to deal with… if you’ve seen in the press the last week they are dealing with withdrawal of some partners over Shell sponsorship (another issue which attracts disparate views): https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/02/manchester-museum-of-science-and-industry-festival-partners-withdraw-shell-oil-sponsorship If they say they have to take money from Shell because their government funding is squeezed then maybe they should have an easier time concerning short-term volunteers. Wynn From: psci-com: on public engagement with science <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Sent: 05 September 2018 11:44 To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] 1001 Inventions: Call for Volunteers for Manchester Science Festival Event Interesting link to government advice, but it does not seem to cover the example of the New Scientist or the Manchester event. The illustrations are long term and include “intern” roles. They do not cover someone who puts a couple of hours into a one-off event. In some cases, those “perks” are a substitute for paying a wage. The British Science Association is about to explode on us. When I attended, all those years ago, it depended on teams of young volunteers. As one of the larger bashes on the PEST front it would be interesting to know how it manage this issue. Precedent and practice may be useful information for an organisation that is considering the use of volunteers. In other words, what is best practice on this front? MK From: psci-com: on public engagement with science > On Behalf Of Wynn Abbott Sent: 04 September 2018 20:22 To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] 1001 Inventions: Call for Volunteers for Manchester Science Festival Event Hi Tom, I doubt we’d all agree on what is and isn’t exploitation – and the rules on minimum wage and expenses are not fool proof, I don’t think… i.e. https://www.gov.uk/volunteering/pay-and-expenses <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gov.uk%2Fvolunteering%2Fpay-and-expenses&data=02%7C01%7C%7C3f5e4989f95145a403e708d6129bae11%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636716857182223792&sdata=AwIJhHnilX8WGKkbMFzIQaa2OluWOZap8EdOTZtdUJQ%3D&reserved=0> If you’re offering perks which can be interpreted as a form of payment, minimum wage is due. I’m not sure most people would know this. Best, Wynn From: psci-com: on public engagement with science <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > On Behalf Of Tom Pringle Sent: 04 September 2018 15:53 To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] 1001 Inventions: Call for Volunteers for Manchester Science Festival Event Hi Michael, I think you've hit the nail on the head. The point is not to attack volunteering per se but to recognise when it is being employed exploitatively and to take a stand against it - just as you would any other form of exploitation. Best wishes, Tom Dr Bunhead's Science Education On 04 September 2018 at 00:16 "Stewart, Michael" <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > wrote: This comment brings to my mind the Olympic Games - probably, in some respects, an even greater money-go-round than our largest medical charities. Interesting, in that context, to remember the transformative role of the tens of thousands of volunteers who, in 2012, turned the whole of London into a city of welcome for the world. Maybe there’s more to be said about volunteering than currently gets an airing in this list? Between blatant exploitation and charitable sacrifice there’s probably a hundred stations on a number of different lines along the way.... Michael Stewart UCL Sent from my iPhone On 3 Sep 2018, at 21:18, " [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> " < [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > wrote: The “non-profit” versus company split falls over when you look at the biggest non-profit in the land. The Wellcome Trust could probably buy the whole of New Scientist with the money in the petty cash box. MK From: psci-com: on public engagement with science <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > On Behalf Of Wynn Abbott Sent: 03 September 2018 17:40 To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] 1001 Inventions: Call for Volunteers for Manchester Science Festival Event I’m more confused why Manchester Science Festival is being lumped together with New Scientist Live re. volunteers… from following the discussion on this list over the years “I thought” that the approach to the moral question of whether volunteers should be paid is quite different depending on whether the organisation running the event is a public non-profit (Manchester Science Festival) and a company (as with NS Live). I also don’t think you can simply say “Edinburgh Science Festival pays all volunteers therefore all science festivals should be paying all volunteers for every bit of volunteering” – when all scifests have different structures and different budgets. Last week, I was contacted by an agency who are searching for a new events manager for New Scientist (including New Scientist Live) so it looks like they are restructuring. From talking to the agent I think there are other issues they should deal with – in my view the (very corporate) language they are using in searching for a new manager are not the norm in public engagement. And, the agent doesn’t seem to have the foggiest what science communication and PEST is. Here’s hoping they find someone who isn’t just about the money. Wynn From: psci-com: on public engagement with science <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Sent: 03 September 2018 11:21 To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] 1001 Inventions: Call for Volunteers for Manchester Science Festival Event As the person who first asked about payment for volunteers at the New Scientist extravaganza, I’d hardly describe the discussion as “lambasting” anyone. My original observation really related to the minimal information that appeared on this list. “Join our volunteer team and help make a huge impact at the event. Meet likeminded individuals, develop and gain new skills, and of course have time to experience and enjoy the amazing festival itself.” I also visited the relevant New Scientist page and was not much wiser. The subsequent response from Lucy at New Scientist was much clearer and certainly convinced me that we were not talking about the much excoriated practice of recruiting unpaid interns. Thanks to moans from a small band of PSCI diehards, posts offering those have now been effectively outlawed on this list at least, and perhaps in the wider world of Public Engagement in Science and Technology. The volunteers for the New Scientist event are not in the same category. So my beef is with the way it was first presented, not with the scheme as it was explained in Lucy’s detailed explanation. Maybe next year New Scientist will post a clearer message when it starts recruiting volunteers. MK From: psci-com: on public engagement with science <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > On Behalf Of Ellie Cawthera Sent: 02 September 2018 16:45 To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] 1001 Inventions: Call for Volunteers for Manchester Science Festival Event Hi Sophie, New Scientist have just been lambasted on this list and on the BIG Chat list for posting a volunteering opportunity for their event 'New Scientist Live'. Lots of points were eloquently raised so I won't rephrase them but will put some here so that Manchester Sci Fest may re-think their practice or at least provide an explanation for why they can't pay people. It's worth noting that Edinburgh Science Festival manage to pay everybody so if they can, so can you. From Tom Pringle (aka Dr. Bunhead): The crux of this issue is exploitation. Exploitation of volunteering (is it exploiteering?) It is about the abuse of imbalanced power dynamic (accidental or deliberate). If it's accidental it's easier to address. Either way I think it should be called out and challenged. From Eleanor Greene: Could you confirm for me why you are not paying the staff who will help to make the event a success? You are paying the venue. You are paying the equipment suppliers. You are presumably being paid yourself You are charging attendees But you expect the on site staff to survive on the generosity of their parents or on benefits. From Richard Ellam: Come on New Scientist, wake up and smell the coffee - pay all your casual workers at your event Food for thought Manchester... Best wishes, Ellie On Sun, 2 Sep 2018 at 09:58, Sophie Perry <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > wrote: Hi there, 1001 Inventions, an award winning science and culture education organisation, is looking for volunteers for our Manchester Science Festival event ”Ibn Al-Haytham: Mysteries of How We See”. The event runs on the 23rd, 24th, 26th and 27th of October at Manchester Central Library. Volunteers would be expected to attend a training session on Monday 22nd October. What will you be doing? Volunteers will gain experience in running science demonstrations and workshops with members of the public, as well as welcoming visitors to the exhibition and helping control crowd flow. Volunteers will do one morning or afternoon shift on each of the event days, getting a chance to experience different stations/roles to build their experience. Who are we looking for? Budding communicators who are enthusiastic, engaged, proactive and looking to build their experience. Though you don’t have to be an expert, those with an interest in, or knowledge of science/culture or public engagement would be particularly well suited to this role. What do you get? ● Volunteers will gain experience working with award-winning science and cultural education organisation 1001 Inventions, which has engaged with more than 350 million people across the globe through films, exhibits, events and books. ● Volunteers will be provided with a short training day which will help to build their confidence and knowledge of science, science communication and public engagement, which will help build to future opportunities. ● Volunteers will be provided with lunch and snacks during the events. How to apply If you are interested in applying for one of these roles, please send a short covering letter and CV to Sophie Perry [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> entitled: application for ‘MSF2018 volunteer role’. Background: The “1001 Inventions and the World of Ibn Al-Haytham” global educational initiative was launched by 1001 Inventions in partnership with UNESCO in 2015 in celebration of the United Nations proclaimed International Year of Light. The global initiative engaged audiences around the world with events at the UNESCO headquarters in Paris, United Nations in New York, the China Science Festival in Beijing, the Royal Society in London, the Jordan Museum, the Berlin Science Week and in more than ten other cities around the world. More information About 1001 Inventions: http://www.1001inventions.com/ <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.1001inventions.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5bdac37bdd7b43e07cff08d610eb2462%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636714999441781667&sdata=WzAEmk6pah380eph6F20RwSUQETal%2FH4GKSOmNIeMSA%3D&reserved=0> About Manchester Science Festival: https://www.manchestersciencefestival.com/ <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manchestersciencefestival.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5bdac37bdd7b43e07cff08d610eb2462%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636714999441937926&sdata=vMnDn0OL6ohbaQgbXyo3vg3pEVNXVwsqxOKuC93BL6U%3D&reserved=0> About 1001 Inventions and the World of Ibn al-Haytham which has travelled around different parts of the world: http://1001inventions.com/ibnalhaytham <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F1001inventions.com%2Fibnalhaytham&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5bdac37bdd7b43e07cff08d610eb2462%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636714999441937926&sdata=2BDHFkJRQulJ7K48BbQuXt4F899xczKQAqLlLHR1z%2Bc%3D&reserved=0> ********************************************************************** psci-com how-to: Once subscribed, send emails for the list to [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> . 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