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Yes that's a good quote Luke. But I can still recall a line from Edwin Brock about the breakfast bore who bangs on the table which had an equal stake in authenticity. Not sure whether it made Brock a good poet. I really like a number of Denise Riley's poems but not necessarily the confessionals. Although the very simple second line is made by the first. dave On 13 May 2018 at 11:45, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > The quote I thought bore out the idea that Riley is (self consciously) > "authentic" in the sense not offering "up easy answers/explanations". > > A fat-lot-of-good mother with a pointless alibi: ‘I didn’t > Know.’.. > > I so want to join you. > > perhaps in a way that undermines or reworks her role as a mother who has > outlived her son. However, I just like the idea of hope, and should read > those Ernest Bloch books, soon. > Thanks anyway, > Luke > > On 12 May 2018 at 19:13, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Well I read what you linked to once (I have that collection just not read >> it yet). The emotion seems muted, but also sounds hopeful. No I really >> cannot say why it seems authentic. >> >> A fat-lot-of-good mother with a pointless alibi: ‘I didn’t >> Know.’.. >> >> I so want to join you. >> >> On 12 May 2018 at 18:59, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>> Oh ok, my apologies. Thanks for the link. >>> >>> Luke >>> >>> On 12 May 2018 at 18:56, Tristan Moss <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>>> She lost an adult son. Read the poem by Riley Luke. Here’s a link to >>>> it. https://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n03/denise-riley/a-part-song >>>> >>>> She just has a great way with words and the ability to choose just the >>>> right one. Of course, this adds to the authenticity of the voice. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12 May 2018, at 18:31, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Not suggesting that you haven't! Just suggesting that one can't decide >>>> from your description, anymore than you can from knowing the Riley's (or at >>>> least, the author) lost a baby. >>>> >>>> Luke >>>> >>>> On 12 May 2018 at 18:29, Luke <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Surely it's impossible to say without reading it >>>>> >>>>> > Tom Paulin, an otherwise fan, regarded it as 'adolescent'. >>>>> >>>>> Luke >>>>> >>>>> On 12 May 2018 at 09:02, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> This interesting Tim, and knotty, but it has the feel of real >>>>>> discussion. One might almost say authentic :) >>>>>> >>>>>> DH Lawrence could well be called authentic. Yet he was also >>>>>> rhetorical and pretentious, all those dark gods that had no place wandering >>>>>> the streets of an imagination made a bus ride from Nottingham. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is Peter Reading's 'C' authentic? A hundred pieces of prose behaving >>>>>> like poems each a hundred words long written in a style au naturel but as >>>>>> artificial and calculated as a wedding song by Spenser. A fake fiction >>>>>> about cancer by a man who once had it and another time would die from it. >>>>>> Tom Paulin, an otherwise fan, regarded it as 'adolescent'. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are the best-selling Birthday Letters authentic?? Is Maya Angelou >>>>>> ditto? >>>>>> >>>>>> Best >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11 May 2018 at 11:44, Tim Allen <0000002899e7d020-dmarc-reques >>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes exactly Luke, the 'how' is still missing, at least in the sense >>>>>>> of describing a 'how' that was special to Riley. I used the word >>>>>>> 'authentic' because of its innate problems - it is one of the most >>>>>>> difficult terms to use when applied to the arts, but nevertheless I think >>>>>>> my use of it in the context of Riley is 'authentic'. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Perceptions of and identifying authenticity in music is an even more >>>>>>> contentious - the process that leads from authentic feeling and expression >>>>>>> first to model/form then to simulacrum and finally to soulless golem (e.g. >>>>>>> x factor or whatever) is almost impossible to untangle. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tim >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11 May 2018, at 02:03, Luke wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm still missing a *how*. No-one is innately authentic, so how >>>>>>> does one go about it? Incidentally. I was recently listening to Kurt >>>>>>> Cobain, of Nirvana, ha, and it struck me so, also. So not limited to >>>>>>> poetry, anyway! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >