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Thanks again. I think it was Amalarius that Arnold and Goodson referenced, though just in the context of what he'd observed in Rome. I'm intrigued because of other folk practices that seem to carry over but divorced from context - and it does also feed into the Llandeilo Talybont project that I've been working on with our National Museum.
Maddy
On 09/02/2018 15:42, Stan Metheny wrote:
********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religionmedieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religionCouple of quick references that I could find online:Adolf Adam, The Liturgical Year (1981) says (p. 65) the silence of the bells during the Triduum goes back at least to Carolingian times, and quotes Amalarius of Metz that clappers (crepitacula, tabulae) are well suited to this time to better express the self-emptying of the Lord. Then he goes on to say that other authors think it is a holdover from a time when bells were as yet unknown in Church usage. I don't have access to the hard copy just now, but he does have footnotes (No. 19, No. 20) for both of those statements. Parsch and other commentators have something on this but whether they have citations I would have to check when I have access to books again.Also DuCange has some examples of this use of tabula in monastic contexts.Stan Metheny
On 9Feb, 2018, at 07:44, Paul Chandler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and cultureLewis & Short has crotalum (neuter):********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion
crŏtălum, i, n., = κρόταλον,
a rattle, a bell, castanet, used to accompany wanton dances, P. Scip. ap. Macr. S. 2, 10; Cic. Pis. 9, 20 al.DMLBS has crotalus, -um:
crotalus, ~um [CL < κρόταλον], rattle or sim. crotula, cymbalum, croton [κρότος] Grece, pulsus dicitur. ‥ musicum notat instrumentum quod in sono vocem ciconie imitatur; nam ipsa apud Egiptios ~us appellatur; ~a quoque dicuntur sonore sperule que ‥ varios sonos eduntJ. Sal. Pol. 758D.But Tom is right, nothing that relates it to Lent. I can look up Blaise's liturgical lexica when I'm in my office. -- Paul-- Paul
On 9 February 2018 at 22:33, Thomas Izbicki <[log in to unmask]edu> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and cultureThe OED gives a 16th century example but nothing earlier for Clapper in the liturgical use.It gives nothing useful for Crotalus or Crotalum.I ran both Latin words through a set of Latin databases & Latin dictionaries without finding anything useful.Tom Izbicki
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask].UK> on behalf of Paul Chandler <[log in to unmask] OM>
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 5:33:36 AM
To: [log in to unmask]UK
Subject: Re: [M-R] bellsmedieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and cultureMaddy, I remember the clapper (proper Latin name crotalus) still being in use in Holy Week during my altar-boy career in the late-'50s and early '60s. I suspect most Catholic parishes would have had them and that they were not particularly rare (then):I think that in monasteries of Carmelite Nuns (and perhaps others) they were used as a wake-up device, though whether this was through the year or only in Holy Week I have no idea.-- Paul******************************
On 9 February 2018 at 19:39, Renata Modráková <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and cultureDear Maddy,this custom is very popular in villages in the Czech and Slovac Republics. I copy to you some short information from Wikipedia:
- In the Czech Republic and Slovakia, the day is called Zelený čtvrtek or Zelený štvrtok respectively, again meaning "Green Thursday". It is because the typical meals of this day were made of fresh, green vegetables etc. From that day there is no usage of the church bells until Holy Saturday, here called "White Saturday", because "they have flown to Rome" (a euphemism), in some regions they are replaced by groups of children walking round their village (or around the church) and making noise with wooden rattles. This is to announce to the people approaching beginning of the liturgy and call the people to the church.
We meet information about this custom in many modern and early modern written and printed originals because because of a high popularity of this custom. When I was younger, I met these groups, but nowadays it is on retreat, just local in smaller villages. Nobody meet them in bigger cities or in Prague or Bratislava.If you would like more information, I could give you a contact/name to my colleague here in Czech Republic, who is the main specialist for customs in medieval times here in Czech Republic.With best regards from PraguePhDr. Renáta ModrákováManuscript SpecialistNational Library of the Czech Republic--
2018-02-09 10:15 GMT+01:00 Madeleine Gray <[log in to unmask]>:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture******************************I'm intrigued by the reference in Arnold and Goodson's article to the use of clappers instead of bells in Holy Week. Jeremy Harte of the Epsom & Ewell Museum says this is still a custom in Europe: clappers instead of bells are used during Lent. Children have traditionally imitated this with clappers of their own. He wonders whether this has any connection with the C19 Welsh custom of children performing with clappers during Lent - is it (like some other folk traditions) a survival of medieval practice but divorced from its meaning?
Has anyone else come across medieval examples of clappers being used instead of bells in Lent, or of children's rituals associated with them?
Maddy---
Prof. Madeleine Gray
University of South Wales
http://www.heritagetortoise.co.uk
http://twitter.com/heritagepilgrim
'Lle taw Duw nid doeth yngan' (St Fagan, allegedly)
On 06/02/2018 15:03, John Shinners wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
John H. Arnold and Caroline Goodson have an informative article, "Resounding Community: the History and Meaning of Medieval Church Bells," in Viator 43 No. 1 (2012) 99–130, which is available online as a pdf in several places, for instance at Academia.edu (!). It answers some of the questions raised in this thread but not the mention a restriction on the number of bells. It does mention that three was a recommended minimum, at least according to John Pecham's statues from c. 1279 or so: "tintinnabulo [for the Consecration, etc. I assume]," "campane manuales pro mortuis," and "campane in campanile et corde ad easdem."And I share Gordon's praise for Tom's book on the Eucharist in Canon Law. It's a goldmine.Best,John--
******************************John Shinners
Professor, Schlesinger Chair in Humanistic Studies Emeritus
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, Indiana 46556
Phone: 574-284-4534
Fax: 284-4855
www.saintmarys.edu/~hust
"Learn everything. Later you will see that nothing is superfluous." -- Hugh of St. Victor (d. 1141)****************************** ********** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] uk To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: medieval-religion-request@jisc mail.ac.uk For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medi eval-religion ****************************** ********** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] uk To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: medieval-religion-request@jisc mail.ac.uk For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medi eval-religion
PhDr. Renáta ModrákováManuscripts SpecialistDepartment of Manuscript and Early Printed BooksNational Library of the Czech Republic@renatamodrakova************************************************************ ********** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] uk To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: medieval-religion-request@jisc mail.ac.uk For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medi eval-religion
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Paul Chandler, O.Carm.
Holy Spirit Seminary | PO Box 18 (487 Earnshaw Road) | Banyo Qld 4014 | Australia
office: (07) 3267 4804 | mobile: 044 882 4996
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Paul Chandler, O.Carm.
Holy Spirit Seminary | PO Box 18 (487 Earnshaw Road) | Banyo Qld 4014 | Australia
office: (07) 3267 4804 | mobile: 044 882 4996
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