medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
This is one of the images analysed by Jeffrey Hamburger in his book mentioned earlier, Nuns as Artists.
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Paul Chandler <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Monday, February 5, 2018 at 4:46 PM
To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bathing into The Blood of Christ
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Lots of blood in this spectacular image of the vision of St Bernard:
https://inpress.lib.uiowa.edu/feminae/DetailsPage.aspx?Feminae_ID=37650
On 6 February 2018 at 08:24, Grover Zinn <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear Marco,
Yes, that is the one. If you go to the Cleveland Museum of Art web page you can download a good image directly (at least they claim it; my Mac won't "right click" properly :-( )
Here are links to St. Dominic:
https://www.wikiart.org/en/fra-angelico/saint-dominic-adoring-the-crucifixion-1442
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/saint-dominic.html
I'll have more thoughts for you tomorrow.
best
Grover
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 5:08 PM, Marco Piana, Mr <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear Grover,
Thank you very much for email! Are you referring to this picture?
https://www.google.ca/search?q=sassetta+saint+francis+cross&dcr=0&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=JQaZ_xWie43T1M%253A%252Cpi4KVg9ZD8Wt5M%252C_&usg=__N-dXScXZ80tj_7JH7pYWlN9_KfI%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8m_rK44_ZAhXtUt8KHVJiA_YQ9QEINTAB#imgrc=kh47o_hacsUiIM:
All these iconographic cases are very useful to me, thanks!
Best,
Marco
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Grover Zinn
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 11:19 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bathing into The Blood of Christ
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I'll continue this with the full thread attached for now.
Now that I see the references to the cells at San Marco, a couple of other images come to mind with St. Francis and St. Dominic.
The Cleveland Museum of Art has a painting by Sassetta with St. Francis kneeling at the foot of the Cross with his hand (with the stigmata) placed over blood running down the Cross. Not bathing, but touching the blood.
At San Marco in one of the cloisters (I saw this years ago when at a conference on Christianity and the Renaissance organized by Timothy Verdon at San Marco and was struck by St. Dominic's hands) there is a large painting (fresco?) of St. Dominic kneeling at the foot of the Cross. His hands are on the upright of the Cross, BUT his hands do NOT touch the blood. There is also another one (perhaps not at San Marco; no references with me just now) with St. Dominic, Mary and John in which the blood also stops before it reaches Dominic's hands. Interesting difference.
There are also paintings with Mary Magdalene embracing the upright of the cross. Not sure about the blood there. There is one at Oberlin; will have a look.
Does this list allow attachments---if so I will try to send images.
best
Grover
Grover Zinn
William H. Danforth Professor of Religion, emeritus
former Associate Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences
Oberlin College
Oberlin, OH 44074
grover.zinn (at) oberlin.edu<http://oberlin.edu/>
On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 1:11 PM, James Bugslag <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Tom,
I believe this occurs quite frequently in images of the Arma Christi.
Jim
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From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Thomas Izbicki <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: February 4, 2018 11:39:56 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bathing into The Blood of Christ
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
On my visit to San Marco, the image of the Mocking of Christ caught my attention, the disembodied head spitting at Jesus in particular. I believe it is in cell 7. Is there such a disembodied head in other depictions of the Mocking?
Tom Izbicki
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From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of James Bugslag <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:16:34 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bathing into The Blood of Christ
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Although it is not directly relevant to your theme of bathing in the blood of Christ, this seems to have emerged at about the same time as imagery of Christ in the Winepress, but I believe that more centrally involved drinking rather than bathing in Christ's blood.
Cheers,
Jim
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From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Marco Piana, Mr <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: February 4, 2018 9:42:30 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bathing into The Blood of Christ
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear Phil,
Thank you very much for sharing this insight. The last two pictures are extremely poignant, as Savonarola often talks about being marked by Christ’s blood.
Fra Angelico’s Crucifixion with St Dominic Flagellating Himself, moreover, seems to suggest a certain link between Dominican practice and the everlasting tradition of the flagellanti, despite their lay/Franciscan origin.
And thank you Tom for your suggestion as well. Although less violent than its German counterpart, Italian sacred iconography does not look so dry to me. In Fra Angelico’s case, at least.
Thank you all for your contribution. This is very exciting material!
Have a great weekend.
Best,
Marco
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Thomas Izbicki
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 6:11 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bathing into The Blood of Christ
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
There is an interesting image at the Fogg Museum, Harvard. Attributed to Fra Angelico, it shows a Dominican cardinal, probably Juan de Torquemada, in the same pose as Dominic in cell 17 praying at the foot of the cross.
https://www.google.com/search?q=crucifixion+fogg+museum&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS758US758&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmhv3Z7YrZAhWCo1kKHZZ2CfIQ_AUICigB&biw=1093&bih=530#imgrc=fYJP1suvzhU27M:<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcrucifixion%2Bfogg%2Bmuseum%26rlz%3D1C1CHBF_enUS758US758%26source%3Dlnms%26tbm%3Disch%26sa%3DX%26ved%3D0ahUKEwjmhv3Z7YrZAhWCo1kKHZZ2CfIQ_AUICigB%26biw%3D1093%26bih%3D530%23imgrc%3DfYJP1suvzhU27M%3A&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7C41ff195c4bd74926a09e08d56bf3302f%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636533614601398305&sdata=xZCTuBS4RaurWuj7tKMcy%2BWiovVN9GD3t7m9RNYhN5o%3D&reserved=0>
Tom Izbicki
________________________________
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Phil Feller <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 5:13 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bathing into The Blood of Christ
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Hi Marco,
For specifically Florentine Dominican images, you might want to examine the Fra Angelico frescoes in Convento San Marco. Several show crucifixions with possibly interesting blood imagery. Many of them show Adam's skull buried at the foot of the cross, reflecting the traditional belief that Calvary was the same location as Eden and making reference to several typological tropes, and a few depict Christ's blood flowing down the cross and over the skull (cells 37<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCategory%3AFrescos_by_Fra_Angelico_in_San_Marco%2C_Florence%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AFra_Angelico_-_Crucifixion_with_Mourners_and_Sts_Dominic_and_Thomas_Aquinas_(Cell_37)_-_WGA00551.jpg&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cf21bb9c6290b4168f01708d56b53c6d4%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636532929936590020&sdata=UmFbwZF4%2ByAF6sjVXtgpbCGpTj672a8%2BMq5osGXoYPo%3D&reserved=0> and 38<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCategory%3AFrescos_by_Fra_Angelico_in_San_Marco%2C_Florence%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AFra_Angelico_-_Crucifixion_with_the_Virgin_and_Sts_Cosmas%2C_John_the_Evangelist_and_Peter_Martyr_(Cell_38)_-_WGA00552.jpg&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cf21bb9c6290b4168f01708d56b53c6d4%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636532929936590020&sdata=v38JXKzmenIq0nSVDURuCNn03qRmQb9vUmcCmskMSgE%3D&reserved=0>, for example). Others show St. Dominic at the foot of the cross, with the blood from Christ's side wound flowing out directly above his head (cells 17<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSan_Marco_Frescos_(Angelico)%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AFra_Angelico_-_Crucifixion_with_St_Dominic_(Cell_17)_-_WGA00545.jpg&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cf21bb9c6290b4168f01708d56b53c6d4%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636532929936590020&sdata=xy56%2BMEKl7L9Z%2FBZKAIbTsqMGaAnG6q5bzVhG8J1Dsw%3D&reserved=0> and 20<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCategory%3AFrescos_by_Fra_Angelico_in_San_Marco%2C_Florence%23%2Fmedia%2FFile%3AFra_Angelico_-_Crucifixion_with_St_Dominic_Flagellating_Himself_(Cell_20)_-_WGA00546.jpg&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cf21bb9c6290b4168f01708d56b53c6d4%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636532929936590020&sdata=5cYwwoyQk6P14s0WFwMRnG9jQirQM4tSeqHg4e085Aw%3D&reserved=0>, for example).
Best,
Phil
On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 10:24 AM, Marco Piana, Mr <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Thank you very much, Paul!
I promptly requested the book you mentioned. I will look into it as soon as it hits my desk.
All the best,
Marco
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Paul Chandler
Sent: Friday, February 2, 2018 2:16 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bathing into The Blood of Christ
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Marco, you may also know the striking blood-of-Christ images in Jeffrey Hamburger's Nuns as Artists: The Visual Culture of a Medieval Convent. University of California Press, 1997. But this, too, is mainly from German sources. I can't remember if he deals with Italy. -- Paul
On 1 February 2018 at 04:25, Marco Piana, Mr <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear all,
Thanks again for the amazing feedback, and sorry for the late answer. Things are a bit hectic at uni today.
Dear Robert, thank you very much for sharing your findings. The “Anima Christi” perfectly matches Savonarola’s imagery, thus strengthening the idea that bathing in the blood of Christ was a common topos in Dominican devotion.
Dear David, thanks for pointing me towards the Charter of Christ. The idea of Christ’s blood as ink is very interesting, especially because Savonarola’s vision talks about bloody marks as well. I will look into it.
Dear Rosemary, please let me know more about the dating regarding “Anima Christi” if you can. I intend to mention all this in a note. And to me, “gushing” sounds way more fascinating than “flowing.”
If I have forgotten to thank someone, please let me know. I will gladly answer to you in private.
All the best,
Marco
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of David Winter
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 1:06 PM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bathing into The Blood of Christ
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, but I wonder whether the Charter of Christ might be useful to you. It's an allegorical motif in which Christ's sacrifice is compared to a legal document or diploma. Various elements of the crucifixion (the arma Christi, etc) become components of the document. The blood of his sacrifice is the "ink" of the charter. Maybe someone more versed in the motif can recommend bibliography if it's at all useful.
Best,
David R. Winter
Associate Professor and Chair,
Department of History,
Brandon University
270 18th St.,<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.google.com%2F%3Fq%3D270%2B18th%2BSt.%2C%250D%2B%250D%2B%250D%2BBrandon%2C%2BManitoba%2C%250D%2B%250D%2B%250D%2BCanada%2C%2BR7A%2B6A9%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cf21bb9c6290b4168f01708d56b53c6d4%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636532929936590020&sdata=ugKjWClBBPHiHkCJ1TKao1iTHaRWu7cdKFZGldHJzAo%3D&reserved=0>
Brandon, Manitoba,<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.google.com%2F%3Fq%3D270%2B18th%2BSt.%2C%250D%2B%250D%2B%250D%2BBrandon%2C%2BManitoba%2C%250D%2B%250D%2B%250D%2BCanada%2C%2BR7A%2B6A9%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cf21bb9c6290b4168f01708d56b53c6d4%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636532929936590020&sdata=ugKjWClBBPHiHkCJ1TKao1iTHaRWu7cdKFZGldHJzAo%3D&reserved=0>
Canada, R7A 6A9<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.google.com%2F%3Fq%3D270%2B18th%2BSt.%2C%250D%2B%250D%2B%250D%2BBrandon%2C%2BManitoba%2C%250D%2B%250D%2B%250D%2BCanada%2C%2BR7A%2B6A9%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cf21bb9c6290b4168f01708d56b53c6d4%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636532929936590020&sdata=ugKjWClBBPHiHkCJ1TKao1iTHaRWu7cdKFZGldHJzAo%3D&reserved=0>
phone: (001) 204-720-1435<tel:(204)%20720-1435>
fax: (001) 204-726-0473<tel:(204)%20726-0473>
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From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] on behalf of Rosemary Hayes-Milligan and Andrew Milligan [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: 31 January 2018 11:34
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bathing into The Blood of Christ
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear Rob
I wondered why it was nagging at the back of my brain and now realise that it was the imagery produced by the 'modern' (19th century) translation of Anima Christi that is still the hymn most likely to get a Catholic congregation singing properly. In hymn books I have seen, it has been attributed to John XXII (pope 1316-34) - but I do not know how accurately? For those who do not know it, the words most frequently sung (in the UK at least) are as follows:
Soul of my Savior sanctify my breast,
Body of Christ, be thou my saving guest,
Blood of my Savior, bathe me in thy tide,
wash me with waters gushing [think we tend to sing 'flowing'] from thy side.
Strength and protection may thy passion be,
O blessed Jesus, hear and answer me;
deep in thy wounds, Lord, hide and shelter me,
so shall I never, never part from thee.
Guard and defend me from the foe malign,
in death's dread moments make me only thine;
call me and bid me come to thee on high
where I may praise thee with thy saints for ay. (Edward Caswell's translation)
Best,
Rosemary Hayes
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Durk<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bathing into The Blood of Christ
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Hi Marco
Apologies for being late into the fray!
My general ambit is musical and liturgical but, having edited the music of Gaspar van Weerbeke's (c.1445-1516+) "Anima Christi" (only a few weeks back), I did spot this thread only the lightbulb took a little time to come on.... not an account, but a devotional text, so slightly off your main topic but I suspect worth visiting for context.
Earliest surviving text is Lbl Harley 2253, c. 1340
http://d.lib.rochester.edu/teams/text/fein-harley2253-volume-2-article-19<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fd.lib.rochester.edu%2Fteams%2Ftext%2Ffein-harley2253-volume-2-article-19&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cf21bb9c6290b4168f01708d56b53c6d4%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636532929936590020&sdata=H%2BU8x%2BhJ4SRWwYuKWyKciAhIevtbGDAzoEfpcf5BaC0%3D&reserved=0>
There are a few textual variants around but no huge significance theologically.
"Sanguis Christi inebria me" gets a variety of renditions into English; "inebriate" is an obvious one, but the most widely used English translation runs "Blood of my Saviour, bathe me in thy tide", 'inebria' having also the meaning 'saturate, drench' (per Whitaker's Words).
That, with the following line, "Aqua lateris Christi, lava me," - "Wash me with water flowing from thy side" I think definitely pulls this text into your research basket.
The van Weerbeke setting was printed in 1503 in Venice but my gut feeling is that it dates back to his mid 1470s period in Milan. So a slightly variant text to Harley 2253 was available to him.
There's an interesting paper on the connection between the text and Dominican thought on academia.edu<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Facademia.edu&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cf21bb9c6290b4168f01708d56b53c6d4%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636532929936590020&sdata=RJTa2pA3ISSPiurUC%2FMVaq1NyrSW6y8R%2FeOQ6HXSjbM%3D&reserved=0>:
https://www.academia.edu/28913047/_The_prayer_Anima_Christi_and_Dominican_popular_devotion_late_medieval_examples_of_the_interface_..<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.academia.edu%2F28913047%2F_The_prayer_Anima_Christi_and_Dominican_popular_devotion_late_medieval_examples_of_the_interface_..&data=02%7C01%7Ctizbicki%40LIBRARIES.RUTGERS.EDU%7Cf21bb9c6290b4168f01708d56b53c6d4%7C927347c284584fde99b9ca9ba94d96e0%7C1%7C0%7C636532929936590020&sdata=OY3lvfOvp5jWzS%2BmfL7bS5R%2FJVfFvuQ7IHM%2F2%2Fo3cBg%3D&reserved=0>
Cheers
Rob
________________________________
From: "Marco Piana, Mr" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2018, 18:03
Subject: [M-R] Bathing into The Blood of Christ
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear all,
My name is Marco Piana, and I am a Ph.D. student at McGill University, Montreal. During the last months, I have been working on an article on blood devotion in early modern Italy. One of my case studies involves a vision/prophecy where people convert to Christianity by bathing into the blood of Christ. I was wondering if it is a consistent topos in medieval Christianity, and if so, if you ever encountered a similar case.
Thank you very much in advance!
All the best,
Marco
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Paul Chandler, O.Carm.
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--
Grover Zinn
William H. Danforth Professor of Religion, emeritus
former Associate Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences
Oberlin College
Oberlin, OH 44074
grover.zinn (at) oberlin.edu<http://oberlin.edu>
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--
Grover Zinn
William H. Danforth Professor of Religion, emeritus
former Associate Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences
Oberlin College
Oberlin, OH 44074
grover.zinn (at) oberlin.edu<http://oberlin.edu>
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--
Paul Chandler, O.Carm.
Holy Spirit Seminary | PO Box 18 (487 Earnshaw Road) | Banyo Qld 4014 | Australia
office: (07) 3267 4804 | mobile: 044 882 4996
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
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