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Dear Herwig,
Wow, thanks! Two questions, though. I find the quote as you list it in the online vulgate, but not in the paper Nova Vulgata Bibliorum Sacrarum 1979 which was on the shelf. Does this imply that the new edition is significantly different, or is it just a
matter of numeration?
Second, how do I go about finding interpretations of the passage? What I need is not so much the biblical passage itself but the identification of the Jordan and the other stream (whatever that is supposed to be) with Christians and heathens respectively. Any
ideas?
Meg
Absorbebit fluvium et non mirabitur et habet fiduciam, quod influat Iordanis in os ejus.’Iob 40, 18
********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religionThe Norse text is translated (skipping minor variants): ‘This beast is called Attergus, and swallows all avaricious men. About this beast Holy Scripture says that it shall be no wonder thought it swallow the whole river, and ever it is waiting for Jordan to flow into its mouth.The river Holy scripture calls heathen nations, who come into this beast, and Jordan is Christian peoples, because there baptism began, and this beast plans to swallow them.’
Duggals leiðsla ed. Peter Cahill pp. 34, 117.
The underlined bit is clearly an addition, and I´m wondering if anyone knows its origin? Does it show up in for example Old or Middle English or Anglo-Norman versions of the Vision?
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religionI wonder if any list-member is aware of homilies, encyclopedia discussions, etc. on the following beliefs concerning the River Jordan, all of which appear in a passage I am translating which contains much derivative material. The rest pf the passage looks like it could also be derived from a homily, or maybe several. I´d be happy to send the entire passage to anyone interested.
Water in general is important as being involved in Christ's first miracle in which he turned water into wine, thus sanctifying it.
By being baptized in the River Jordan, Christ sanctified all the water in the world, making it suitable for baptizing people anywhere in the world. This idea appears in fact to be fairly common. My passage maintains that the entire river is holy, not just the spot where Christ was baptized. However, the author will not commit himself how far out to sea the sanctity extends.
However, it is Jordan water that springs forth from the earth in natural water sources such as springs and rivers.
The dove of the Holy Spirit (or sometimes John the Baptist) chrismed the river when Christ was baptized.
The River Jordan is the ‘original’ river created in Paradise which subsequently divides into the four rivers named in the Bible
Water (presumably because it is all derived from the River Jordan) is the most noble of the four elements, even more than fire which closely resembles the Holy Trinity
Not only does its water purify people in baptism, the water in their bodies purifies them when it emerges as tears of repentance. It is also the last element to depart the body, as everyone who has seen a corpse can attest. (That last is my source's comment, not mine!)
Many thanks for any suggestions,
Meg