Giles,
One thought, and I am not sure how this fits into all this, but most recent
listings by Historic England depict polygons on the maps not points and
they seem to represent the footprint of the extant structure above ground,
mainly mapped to OS Mastermap. So does this mean HE have already adopted
this approach and therefore it is fine for anyone else to do the same?
Also as HE are the owners of the Listed Building dataset then whatever
anyone else produces will not be seen as the definitive version so should
anyone else be producing versions of the data at all?
Here in Warwickshire we have moved more and more to using the NHLE to check
designated heritage assets in the area rather than rely on our out of date
copy. What would be nice would be a WMS feed of them all to show directly
on our GIS, something I have raised with HE (through my involvement with
HIAS) and I know others have raised this with HE as well.
Ben
*Ben Wallace*
*(Historic Environment Record Manager)*
BA (EU) Hons, MA, MCIfA
Warwickshire Historic Environment Record
Archaeological Information and Advice (AIA),
Landscape, Ecology and Historic Environment
Heritage and Environment,
Community Services,
Communities
Warwickshire County Council
Phone: 01926 41*2734*
Postal Address: Archaeological Information and Advice, Communities,
Warwickshire County Council, PO Box 43, Shire Hall, Warwick CV34 4SX
Physical Address: Archaeological Information and Advice, Communities,
Warwickshire County Council, Barrack Street, Warwick CV34 4TH
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
Web:
http://heritage.warwickshire.gov.uk/archaeology/historic-environment-record/
http://timetrail.warwickshire.gov.uk
Blog: http://warwickshireher.wordpress.com/
On 21 March 2017 at 10:20, Giles Carey <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Dear all
> I have replied directly to Rob but thought I would share my comments for
> the benefit of all who may well be having to deal with this issue either
> directly or indirectly.
>
> In Shropshire we were made aware of this issue by our colleagues in Land
> Charges in November 2016, following the publication in June 2016 of the
> migration guide:
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/local-land-
> charges-local-authority-pre-digitisation-and-migration-
> guide/local-land-charges-local-authority-pre-digitisation-and-migration-
> guide
>
> I subsequently raised the issue with colleagues in Historic England and
> after a few follow ups the issue was assigned to the legal team. In late
> January they undertook to pursue this at the highest level with the land
> registry and I understand have brokered a meeting within the last month,
> although I have not yet heard the outcome of this - although they have said
> that they will share it with the wider HER community.
>
> There is some conflation between curtilage and building footprints within
> the documentation that the land registry have put out, and we have been
> keen that they separate out the two discussions - namely digitisation of
> footprint from digitisation of curtilage; the latter has an important legal
> definition that has been tested in both case law and the appeals system
> (including a number locally!), and which Historic England have emphasised
> cannot be dealt with algorithmically, but rather is "always a question of
> fact and degree."
>
> Our attention in Shropshire has been on looking at the representation of
> footprints of listed buildings, taking a cue from the pre-digitisation
> guidance "In line with guidance in the Pre-Digitisation Guide "Digital data
> from Historic England is usually in the form of point data. Land Registry
> require a spatial representation to be supplied appropriate to the type of
> real world object being listed."
>
> There are significant issues with our data to meeting this aspiration, and
> we have undertaken some pilot work to explore the scale of the issue. It is
> a long story involving data coming from 5 districts with very different
> approaches in 2009 when Shropshire became unitary but essentially boils
> down to at least 100 days work to deal with the higher priority cases to
> meet this level of spatial representation.
>
> Our view, however, is that we cannot move this forward until we receive
> 'official' notification from Historic England that they endorse local
> authorities taking such an approach when the national dataset is supplied
> as point data only. It would essentially result in the creation of a
> surrogate digital dataset to be queried algorithmically and used in a
> manner removed from both the data supplier and the LPA.
>
> I am hoping for some news soon from Historic England soon as theoretically
> implementation of the transfer of the local land registry to the Land
> Registry is scheduled to occur as early as October 2017.
>
> I don't know whether this is helpful but nice to hear that other HERs are
> now picking this issue up and I feel like less of a lone voice!
>
> Kind regards
>
> Giles
>
> Giles Carey
> Historic Environment Records Officer, Historic Environment Team,
> Shropshire Council | 01743 254619
>
> * HER information: http://new.shropshire.gov.uk/environment/historic-
> environment/historic-environment-record/ or email [log in to unmask]
> * Search the HER online: on Discovering Shropshire’s History:
> http://search.shropshirehistory.org.uk/collections/search/advanced/ or as
> part of Heritage Gateway: http://www.heritagegateway.org.uk/gateway/
>
>
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