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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Hi Meg, The Franz book is available from HathiTrust: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/api/volumes/oclc/6808885.html In general, you can often find the location of online texts from Worldcat. Worldcat shows this book available in both Google Books and HathiTrust, but Google does not appear to have anything more than information about the two volumes. Best, Phil Feller On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Cormack, Margaret Jean <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > Thanks Paul, > > It was indeed the Franz book of which I have a vague recollection. Do you > (or does anyone on the list) know if any of these are accessible on line? > Meg > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious > culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Paul Chandler < > [log in to unmask]> > *Sent:* Friday, February 17, 2017 9:31 PM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [M-R] Blessing water - and anything else > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > Meg, I suppose I always say the same thing, but I think a useful first > step is usually to check the French mega-encyclopedias, where there will > often be a long and thorough historical treatment, even if dated and > needing to be supplemented by more modern work. The great advantage is that > they aim at a systematic coverage, whereas much modern scholarship is very > specialised and therefore fragmentary (with exceptions, of course). > > For liturgical blessings I would check first *Dictionnaire d'archéologie > chrétienne et de liturgie* (30 vols in 15, 1903-53). It can be > supplemented with the Brepols *Dictionnaire encyclopeìdique de la > liturgie* (2003), where there is an article by Manilio Sodi on > "Bénédiction", or the various one-volume dictionaries like *The New > Westminster Dictionary of Liturgy and Worship* (1986), but they are > rarely given to intricate historical detail like the old works. In German > there may be something substantial (I have not checked) in *Theologische > Realenzyklopädie *(1976- ), or the older *Reallexikon für Antike und > Christentum* (1950- ). > > A. Franz, *Die kirklichen Benediktionen im Mittelalter* (2 vols, 1909) is > perhaps the "weighty German tome" you mention (1500+ pages), to be loved or > feared, depending. I'm not sure of its coverage of the Greek tradition. -- > Paul > > > > On 18 February 2017 at 08:07, Cormack, Margaret Jean <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> >> Thanks to all who responded to my earlier request regarding Holy Water >> and Chrism. My students were most interested in the detailed exorcism of >> the water - and the salt! However a Greek Orthodox friend raised the issue >> of how far back this goes (apparently it is not done today). I´m guessing >> that probably it is there in the early church (I have found Greek examples >> of other things she has scoffed at), but my Greek is pretty much >> non-existent. Does anyone on the list know of Greek rituals for preparing >> holy water and/or baptismal water that are accessible in English (or >> German, or French. I could probably plow my way through Greek with a >> translation on hand.) I´m not just interested in water, though, and am >> wondering if there is perhaps a weighty 19th century German tome on the >> history of liturgical blessings? Of course I´d be delighted to learn of >> something more recent, and in English, but the Germans seem to have done a >> lot of the spadework that has not yet been superceded. >> >> Meg >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious >> culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Thomas Izbicki < >> [log in to unmask]> >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 2:52 PM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: [M-R] Holy water and chrism >> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> >> Chrism was consecrated by the bishop at the chrism mass on Holy Thursday >> & distributed to the parishes. You should look at Powicke & Cheney, *Councils >> and* *Synods*, vol. 2 for regulations concerning this. >> >> >> Regulations for the safe keeping of the Eucharist also are concerned with >> the keeping of chrism. Some of the relevant regulations are translated from >> Lynwoode's *Provinciale* in in *Lyndwood’s Provinciale*…., ed. J. V. >> Bullard and H. Chalmer Bell (London: Faith Press, 1929), esp. pp. 12-13 >> Archbishop Pecham's *Cum sacri*. >> >> >> Tom Izbicki >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious >> culture <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Jolanta >> Komornicka <[log in to unmask]> >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 10:00:45 AM >> *To:* [log in to unmask] >> *Subject:* Re: [M-R] Holy water and chrism >> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> As I recall, Miri Rubin's Medieval Christianity in Practice has a chapter >> or two on baptism and I think a discussion of godparent roles. (the book is >> a sourcebook with primary sources and couple page scholarly discussion >> following each selection) >> >> >> >> Jola. >> >> Dr. Jolanta N. Komornicka >> Corcoran Dept. of History >> University of Virginia >> >> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Gordon Plumb < >> [log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>> culture >>> You can find a translation of the Sarum Baptismal Rite in E C Whitaker, >>> "Documents of the Baptismal Liturgy", Third edition edited by Maxwell E >>> Johnson, London, SPCK, 2003, chapter 14, including the godmothers being >>> enjoined >>> to teach the child the Lord's Prayer, the Hail Mary and the Creed. >>> >>> Gordon Plumb >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Cormack, Margaret Jean <[log in to unmask]> >>> To: MEDIEVAL-RELIGION <[log in to unmask]> >>> Sent: Sat, Jan 28, 2017 2:20 pm >>> Subject: Re: [M-R] Holy water and chrism >>> >>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>> culture >>> >>> >>> Greetings all, >>> >>> Can anyone tell me what kind of ritual(s) are used to create / bless >>> Holy Water in medieval times? What about chrism? If anyone knows of an >>> English translation of a medieval baptism ritual (or instructions, >>> includuding advice to godparents and the like) please let me know! >>> Meg >>> >>> ********************************************************************** >>> To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>> to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it >>> to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the >>> message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In >>> order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>> [log in to unmask] For further information, visit >>> our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion >>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jiscmail.ac.uk_medieval-2Dreligion&d=DwMF-g&c=7MSSWy9Bs2yocjNQzurxOQ&r=ck9DGMUVufrSrS57t_UT9k6In-tVqXkuW6oaFL10XQY&m=XIB5ii7dWJk9S1NMw_YugpZfsMJ3ni5OVUKelunYkYI&s=LbbTFtDvBv4NUNISFFLrD2JvTNLuf61ZzyYsEW3qbl4&e=> >>> 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list's owners, write to: >> [log in to unmask] For further information, visit >> our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jiscmail.ac.uk_medieval-2Dreligion&d=DwMF-g&c=7MSSWy9Bs2yocjNQzurxOQ&r=ck9DGMUVufrSrS57t_UT9k6In-tVqXkuW6oaFL10XQY&m=XIB5ii7dWJk9S1NMw_YugpZfsMJ3ni5OVUKelunYkYI&s=LbbTFtDvBv4NUNISFFLrD2JvTNLuf61ZzyYsEW3qbl4&e=> >> ********************************************************************** >> To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME >> to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it >> to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the >> message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In >> order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >> [log in to unmask] For further information, visit >> our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jiscmail.ac.uk_medieval-2Dreligion&d=DwMFaQ&c=7MSSWy9Bs2yocjNQzurxOQ&r=ck9DGMUVufrSrS57t_UT9k6In-tVqXkuW6oaFL10XQY&m=ul80bHUa4lLrKhwxtV6QNW4VMJ2JpcvFONwxjMeyGRc&s=qPRGr2ee-uxMsVNJa6N2XjmfIGAF_1iKNRwFz_eHIwc&e=> > > > > > -- > Paul Chandler, O.Carm. > Holy Spirit Seminary | PO Box 18 (487 Earnshaw Road) | Banyo Qld 4014 > | Australia > office: (07) 3267 4804 | mobile: 044 882 4996 > [log in to unmask] > ********************************************************************** To > join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: > [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: > unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to > report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] For further information, visit > our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion > 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