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Maddy,
It’s not going to be published now until 2018, all being well. There have been some unforeseen delays in getting it to this stage.
The essay itself is focused on the issue of clerical position in the Battle of Hastings and the position of the Conquest in the emergence of the crusading movement. Interesting stuff!
Chris
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Madeleine Gray
Sent: 27 February 2017 13:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] William the Conqueror and the Pope
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Thanks again. The problem is that I have only the vaguest recollection of it and I failed to make a note at the time. I'll follow those references up. It could even have been a mention in a review, of course.
It's for the introductory paragraphs to the medieval chapter in a co-authored volume on the history of Christianity in Wales so I don't need a huge amount of detail (and have been told to go easy on the referencing!) but I need to be sure of my ground (more
so, I think, if I can't add a huge 'on the one hand ... on the other hand' footnote).
Where is your chapter published?
Best wishes
Maddy
---
Prof. Madeleine Gray
University of South Wales
http://www.heritagetortoise.co.uk
http://twitter.com/heritagepilgrim
'Death has no answers, it just holds up a mirror and asks who you are and who you want to be' (Caitlin Doughty)
On 27/02/2017 13:40, Dennis, Chris K (L&IS Staff) wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Maddy,
I don't know which article you mean – nothing leaps to mind other than Catherine Morton's article about the papal banner, Mary Smith's 'Stigand / eye of the needle' (which is more about Stigand's career than the corruption of the A-S Church), and perhaps George Garnett's article (and subsequent book on the same subject) 'Coronation and Propaganda'. Do you remember when it was published? If you want further info on the topic, I would look at Barlow's The English Church (both of them), Henry Loyn's slimmer volume on the same subject, and perhaps the works on Lanfranc, to gauge Norman attitudes towards the practices they found (notably the cults of local saints and even the cult of the Virgin).
I hope that's useful.
Chris
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Madeleine Gray
Sent: 27 February 2017 12:10
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] William the Conqueror and the Pope
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Many thanks - yes, that's ever so helpful.
I don't suppose you have come across the article disputing whether the Pope gave William an explicit mission to reform ... but from what you say it seems I can pretty much discount it.
Some of us also dispute the degeneracy attributed to the Welsh church - and of course there is evidence for collaboration and conflation as well as expropriation here as well as in England.
Thanks againMaddy
---
Prof. Madeleine Gray
University of South Wales
http://www.heritagetortoise.co.uk
http://twitter.com/heritagepilgrim
'Death has no answers, it just holds up a mirror and asks who you are and who you want to be' (Caitlin Doughty)
On 27/02/2017 09:02, Dennis, Chris K (L&IS Staff) wrote:
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Hello Maddy,
It's very nice to see William the Conqueror mentioned in relation to this list. I have just written a book chapter looking at this issue, for – as seems likely, and as most modern historians would agree – Alexander II dispatched a papal banner to the Normans prior to the Hastings campaign, and – as Prof Bates highlighted in his first biography of the Conqueror – the invasion itself was framed by the use of a variety of 'religious paraphernalia' (lovely expression), including relics, as well as the banner. This, I would argue (see my chapter!), was intended to locate the campaign within the emerging concept of holy war that would be expressed in a more developed form in the First Crusade (also see Erdmann for some of these ideas). The papacy therefore had a vested interest in the campaign. In addition to the inherent justice of Duke William's claim to the throne – this is following the Norman case, as set out in William of Poitiers – and the immorality of the crimes of the Godwin family, the papacy sought to bring about a reform of the A-S church. This is actually mentioned by WP, but tends to be associated with the second and third generations of authors who wrote about the Conquest. (It is also mentioned in the Vita Edwardi Regis.) Most modern historians think this degeneracy exaggerated (see Barlow, Gransden and Mary Smith), but the papacy had apparently made repeated attempts to depose Stigand after 1052, and the papal legates who became involved in English affairs in 1070 actively took an interest in ecclesiastical business across the country, according to Orderic. In other words, there is circumstantial evidence of the Normans doing something about the A-S church after 1066.
I hope that helps and isn't too long.
Best wishes,
Chris
Dr Chris Dennis FHEA
Academic Skills Specialist / Arbenigwr Sgiliau Academaidd
Cardiff Metropolitan University/ Prifysgol Metropolitan Caerdydd
Llandaff Learning Centre/ Canolfan Dysgu Llandaf
Room / Ystafell T1.07
Llandaff Tel: (029 2041) 6561
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Madeleine Gray
Sent: 26 February 2017 08:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [M-R] William the Conqueror and the Pope
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear learned ones,
I have a confession. While looking for something else, I came across a reference to (I think) an article challenging the traditional idea that William the Bastard invaded England and Wales not just with the Pope's blessing but with a specific remit to reform the church there.Mea maxima culpa - I failed to make a note of it.
Now I want to reference it in something on the early 2nd millennium church in Wales and of course I can't find it. Has anyone come across it and been more sensible than me and made a proper note of it?
Best wishesMaddy
--
Prof. Madeleine Gray
University of South Wales
http://www.heritagetortoise.co.uk
http://twitter.com/heritagepilgrim
'Death has no answers, it just holds up a mirror and asks who you are and who you want to be' (Caitlin Doughty)********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion
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