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Point taken. However, I'd argue that this didn't stop Putin in Ukraine -
not a NATO member of course, but is actively participating in NATO
programmes. My principle argument is about the political stability the EU
has given Europe. Blaming global problems on a regional economic union is,
I believe, a massive misunderstanding of the world we're living in, and
willl undermine ofthe the most important forums for international
cooperation, whether it be in conflict resolution, migration management or
archaeological research stipends.

On 27 May 2016 at 11:40, John Wood <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I think you will find that the Baltic States signed up with NATO as
> soon as they could and before they became EU members. That is why
> Putin isn't in a hurry to invade them.
>
> On 5/27/16, Jonathan Russell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > It seems to me the 'leavers' shout the loudest, so here's my 'think very
> > carefully what your voting for' shout, and I even manage something
> vaguely
> > archaeological at the end:
> >
> > Three generation of peace. No wars in or between EU states since it's
> > founding. Yugoslavia, the communist 'hole in the middle of Europe',
> > disintegrated with 140,000 dead and 4,000,000 refugees - the new states
> > with EU advice and support are applying formembership. Civil war
> ('Putin's
> > War') in eastern Ukraine in attempt to stop the democratising west from
> > joining the EU. Belarus at last tackling its human rights and corruption
> > issues in a desire for membership. Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia all
> > thankful that they joined the EU in the nick of time - if they'd stayed
> > out, Putin would have almost certainly done a 'Crimea' and annexed parts
> or
> > all of one or more of them by now.
> >
> > Don't forget that the EU countries do their best to managage migration
> and
> > (rarely mentioned by the campaigning politicians or the tabloids)
> > repatriate when possible. The worst pile ups and human misery are across
> > borders with non-EU coutries. Migration's going to happen 'in' or 'out',
> > it's a world phenomenon. I'd prefer combined European action than going
> it
> > alone. It might even make the UK more appealing as a destination, with
> > diminished influence of European controls. I think that the 'keep Britain
> > independent' parties would then heap even more blame on Europe in a
> > self-fulfilling prophecy, leading to increased extremism in British
> > politics.
> >
> > We do vote for our own MPs and MEPs. No, we don't vote for the EU civil
> > servants just as we don't vote for our own, and it would be a bad thing
> if
> > that ever happened. I don't want politicians managing the economy, I want
> > economists! The politicians set policy. Subtle but essential difference.
> >
> > Was reading the Gallic Wars not so long ago. I wonder what Julius Caesar
> > would make of all this? I also recall hearing something about Britain
> > making break-away bids from another European union about 1½ millenia ago,
> > and that didn't go so well for us - arguably took several centuries to
> > recover.
> >
>