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 A fair point Bronac and we did indeed discuss this, though I should make
clear to everyone that I wasn't involved in the editorial side of the book.

However the majority of Pobric's "review" isn't so much about the book but
what he considers to be internet art in general, and is (I think)
underpinned by a fear of the Internet itself as a medium for both art and
communication. An informed critique of the book would be welcome, but I
don't see this in Pobric's writing.

Best,

Nick




On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 7:04 PM, bronac ferran <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I have already discussed this in part with Nick so am hopefully not
> springing anything new here, or rattling the cage any further.  But a point
> worth making I think is that the particular book being reviewed miscasts
> itself in my view as a much needed survey of an overlooked field. See its
> own promotional material to verify this. The challenge is heightened with
> the book lacking a specific editorial or preface to adequately clarify its
> context, in my view. So criticism of the book as a survey publication 'may'
> be justified. Without a well worked editorial there is a gap which can be
> exploited and indeed exposed.
>
> best
> B
>
> On Wednesday, 18 June 2014, Nick Lambert <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I've been mulling a direct response to Pobric but will let things simmer
> > while I try and finish a project. One could  ask why Pobric even bothered
> > reviewing the book at all, if he felt it wasn't worth his time? (I must
> > admit an interest here, as I had an essay in *Art and the Internet*).
> It's
> > instructive to look at his website http://www.pacpobric.com/ and read
> his
> > scribblings on the weighty issues of the Art World. Draw your own
> > conclusions!
> >
> > I agree with Sarah that the amnesia relating to internet art - and
> digital
> > art in the broad sense - is more than irritating. How many times will it
> be
> > "discovered" by the "mainstream", and how often is Hockney the example
> they
> > use? Nicholas is right to ask for a conversation about the aesthetic
> > aspects of this area. The Art Newspaper has its own provincialism and I
> > think of it as a trade mag for Cork Street and Chelsea (NYC) - and Dubai
> > too, no doubt. That's not to understate its importance in certain places,
> > but we should ask ourselves why Pobric felt motivated to write a hit
> piece
> > like this.
> >
> > I would venture that it's because he and his peers fear losing control of
> > the "art conversation". The Internet has already forced open the
> boundaries
> > of their world and they hate being disrupted by people they've never even
> > heard of, from parts of the globe where their holy writ doesn't run.
> > Pobric's association of the Net with the great unwashed - the contempt
> that
> > he, a denizen of the rarefied heights of the New York art scene, feels
> for
> > the mass who discuss cookery or cars on the Intraweb - speaks volumes.
> >
> > The obvious fulcrum to turn Pobric's argument on its head (as suggested
> by
> > Nicholas and Marc) is the term "insularity". They hate the effrontery of
> > outsiders entering the art world with new ideas, more diverse faces and a
> > technology that (as is evident from the article) they barely comprehend.
> >
> > As Marc notes, the broader demographies of the internet are precisely
> what
> > Pobric and his fellow art provincials fear the most, since their economy
> is
> > predicated on the penthouse and the boardroom.
> >
> > More to come!
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > All best,
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 4:41 PM, marc garrett <
> > [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Nicholas & all,
> > >
> > >
> > > >So instead of operating in the suburbs, how could the list propose
> that
> > > it is in fact the
> > > >art world that is suburban - with its gated community paywalls,
> > whitecube
> > > picket fences,
> > > >and McMansions Art Centers - instead of the other way around.
> > >
> > > I agree with the above & Sarah's post on the matter works for me.
> > >
> > > Anyway -- I'm too busy at the moment with our 'provincial' exhibition.
> A
> > > collaboration with The Arts Catalyst "SEFT-1 Abandoned Railways
> > Exploration
> > > Probe: Modern Ruins 1:220 -- Ivan Puig and Andrés Padilla Domene"
> > > http://go.shr.lc/1jy7AJo
> > >
> > > It was featured in the Guardian last week by Jonathan jones 'The
> > > ruin-hunters who drove a car down Mexico's forgotten railways'
> > > http://go.shr.lc/1qwbV4K
> > >
> > > And will be featured on the BBC news on Friday...
> > >
> > > Oh wait! I get it, it's seen as 'provincial' because the work
> > successfully
> > > reaches people, beyond their art establishment silos. Of course ;-)
> > >
> > > bye for now.
> > >
> > > marc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Sarah + all:
> > > >
> > > > I actually think that there's some stuff worth engaging in this...
> > > >
> > > > I haven't read Joanne's book, so I can't speak to the ways in which
> > this
> > > > piece fails as a review, but this closing statement definitely sent a
> > > > shiver down my browser:
> > > >
> > > > "The problem with the book, as with internet art, is that no one has
> > > > recognised the aesthetic problems of provincial conversation. Work by
> > > > artists who turn inward to have hushed talks with a small coterie
> about
> > > > local problems will have little effect on culture at large. McLuhan's
> > > > global village may have its merits, but the cultural celebration of
> > > > marginalism in art is not one of them."
> > > >
> > > > The reactionary in me would outright disagree with this, but I did
> > have a
> > > > moment of thinking bout who does address the aesthetic problems of
> the
> > > > "provincial conversation" of internet art. So maybe as a way of
> > thinking
> > > > about outright disagreeing with Pac Pobric, the list might suggest
> some
> > > > compelling counters?
> > > >
> > > > To that end, the metric of cultural relevance as proposed in this
> > article
> > > > is squarely situated in archaic models of art
> presentation/distribution
> > > (I
> > > > think that a lot of us can agree on that). So instead of operating in
> > the
> > > > suburbs, how could the list propose that it is in fact the art world
> > that
> > > > is suburban - with its gated community paywalls, whitecube picket
> > fences,
> > > > and McMansions Art Centers - instead of the other way around.
> > > >
> > > > very best
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Kelani Nichole <
> > [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> He is based in Brooklyn, no worries tho y'all I already invited him
> to
> > > our
> > > >> next opening at TRANSFER - Claudia Maté on July 12 :D
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Bests,
> > > >> Kelani Nichole
> > > >>
> > > >> Curatorial Director, TRANSFER
> > > >> http://transfer.gallery
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 9:49 AM, marc garrett <
> > > >> [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Wow!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Where do they find these people?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> marc
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  Hi CRUMBs
> > > >>>> thought you might be interested to read this article about
> internet
> > > art,
> > > >>>> which is a thin review of the book Art and the Internet, Joanne
> > McNeil
> > > >> et
> > > >>>> al, Black Dog Publishing.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >> http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/Internet-art-
> > > fails-to-click/32983
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> It suggests that internet art takes place in the suburbs, that it
> is
> > > >>>> provincial.
> > > >>>> Use it as yet another rallying cry to improve the art history of
> > this
> > > >>>> field of practice.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Sarah
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ===
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Dr. Sarah Cook
> > > >>>> Reader / Dundee Fellow
> > > >>>> Duncan of Jordanstone College of Art and Design
> > > >>>> University of Dundee
> > > >>>> 13 Perth Road DD1 4HT
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> phone: 01382 385247
> > > >>>> email: [log in to unmask] <javascript:;><mailto:
> > [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish Charity, No:
> > > SC015096
> > > >>>> .
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> --->
> > > >>>
> > > >>> A living - breathing - thriving networked neighbourhood -
> > > >>> proud of free culture - claiming it with others ;)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Other reviews,articles,interviews
> > > >>> http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Furtherfield - online arts community, platforms for creating,
> > viewing,
> > > >>> discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
> > > >>> intersections of art, technology and social change.
> > > >>> http://www.furtherfield.org
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Furtherfield Gallery - Finsbury Park (London).
> > > >>> http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
> > > >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org
> > > >>>
> > > >>> http://identi.ca/furtherfield
> > > >>> http://twitter.com/furtherfield
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > --->
> > >
> > > A living - breathing - thriving networked neighbourhood -
> > > proud of free culture - claiming it with others ;)
> > >
> > > Other reviews,articles,interviews
> > > http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php
> > >
> > > Furtherfield - online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing,
> > > discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
> > > intersections of art, technology and social change.
> > > http://www.furtherfield.org
> > >
> > > Furtherfield Gallery - Finsbury Park (London).
> > > http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery
> > >
> > > Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
> > > http://www.netbehaviour.org
> > >
> > > http://identi.ca/furtherfield
> > > http://twitter.com/furtherfield
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > =================
> > Dr Nick Lambert (DPhil Oxon)
> > Lecturer in Digital Art and Culture
> > Department of History of Art & Screen Media
> > Birkbeck, University of London
> > 43 Gordon Square,
> > London, WC1H 0PD
> > www.technocultures.org.uk
> > Mobile: 0781 0381 458
> >
>
>
> --
> Bronaċ
>



-- 
=================
Dr Nick Lambert (DPhil Oxon)
Lecturer in Digital Art and Culture
Department of History of Art & Screen Media
Birkbeck, University of London
43 Gordon Square,
London, WC1H 0PD
www.technocultures.org.uk
Mobile: 0781 0381 458