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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture I think the retrospective monument and the soon-after-death cenotaph are probably 2 different phenomena (though both equally fascinating!) I wonder whether we can get any idea of intention - are there ever inscriptions which make it clear that the body is elsewhere? (you do of course get this on post-medieval monuments.) I don't think that retrospective monuments ever had any intention to deceive - but there's a slippery area between retrospective monuments and reliquaries which again confuses the picture. Maddy Dr Madeleine Gray PhD, FRHistS Reader in Church History/ Darllenydd mewn Hanes yr Eglwys School of Humanities and Social Sciences /Ysgol Ddyniaethau a Gwyddoniaethau Cymdeithasol University of South Wales/Prifysgol De Cymru Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion, Newport/Casnewydd NP18 3QT Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675 http://www.southwales.ac.uk http://twitter.com/penrhyspilgrim http://twitter.com/HeritageUSW http://twitter.com/USWHistory 'We all cherrypick the past but you have to be aware that you're cherrypicking' (Ruth Goodman) ________________________________ From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Jon Cannon [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 9:52 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [M-R] cenotaphs medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture I concur with what Maddy says strongly. And I'd also counsel -- this may be obvious -- against making assumptions in any given case. Given their size, it is astonishing how many medieval tombs have demonstrably been moved around the church, or major parts of them -- entire effigies -- lost. This confuses the evidence for the true picture, ie the original relationship of effigy and burial -- all the more. A couple more examples: The retrospective bishops of Wells are a celebrated example of a much more widespread phenomenon: there were programmes of 'heritage' monuments to past bishops at Hereford and York, too. The Bristol merchant William Canynges has two effigies in St Mary Redcliffe church, Bristol. One is a full-scale affair with a canopy in which he and his wife are depicted as a wealthy burgess-class couple; the other shows Canynges alone in alabaster, in his role as Dean of Westbury. They can't both be tombs! At Gloucester (Prince Osric) and Malmesbury (Athelstan) abbeys there are sixteenth-century monuments to Anglo-Saxon royal founders and benefactors. Jon ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion