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If I may recommend my own (ongoing) contribution to the debate around cinema's "third term", here is a link to a twenty-page discussion of "découpage" and a blurb for my forthcoming little monograph on the term and its relation to montage and mise en scene. See also, in additon to the forthcoming volume on Mise en Scène by Frank Kessler already mentionbed on this thread, the volume on montage by Jacques Aumont, now available in bound and Kindle format. (The three mini-volumes will be bound into a single volume called Montage, Découpage, Mise en Scène: Essays on Film Form in 2014.) Thank you very much, Timothy Barnard, caboose. ________________________________ From: Marina Uzunova <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Monday, 20 May 2013, 11:28 Subject: Re: [FILM-PHILOSOPHY] what is mise-en-scene You might find this blurb of Frank Kessler's up-coming Mise en Scene book helpful: http://www.caboosebooks.net/mise%20en%20scene The Belgian film critic Dirk Lauwaert once proclaimed that mise en scène was the “most beautiful word” when talking about cinema. This, at first sight, might seem paradoxical, given its origins in theatre where, as an 1885 dictionary of stage terms states, it refers to “the art of organising the stage action considered under every angle and in all its aspects”. Lauwaert, however, quite obviously alluded to a very specific understanding of the term, which emerged in the wake of the politique des auteurs as practised by Cahiers du Cinéma. Here, mise en scène emphatically became the focus of film criticism in order to identify the distinctive qualities of an auteur. Thus the term mise en scène is applied in a variety of ways within Cinema Studies. David Bordwell and Kristin Thompson, for instance, use it rather descriptively when discussing the shot as a unit of film form, in order to be able make a distinction between all the elements that belong to the realm of the profilmic, and those that result from the work of the camera. From the point of view of mise en scène criticism, on the other hand, such a distinction might seem inappropriate, as cinematography surely is one aspect of mise en scène. Mise en scène, when understood as one of the most fundamental techniques of film making, has always been part of film history, from Georges Méliès’s “artificially arranged scenes” to contemporary block busters or art house movies. But it is also obvious, that the practices the term refers to have changed over time, that film makers have made a variety of choices, and that complex interplay between space, actors, and camera is dependent also upon technological constraints. ________________________________ From: Hrvoje Turkovic <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Monday, 20 May 2013, 10:35 Subject: Re: [FILM-PHILOSOPHY] what is mise-en-scene Mike In your trichotomy, what you term "cinematography" is, actually, termed FRAMING (or for "montage" Russians - mise-en-cadre) - the proces of determining - choosing - the exact view of the mise-en-scene within the particular shot: choice of shot angle, shot scale, possible viewpoint movements etc.). And, mise-en-scene in film is hardly "theatrical element" - film mise-en-scene counts on multiple and changable vantage points, onr vantage points that are not "out there in the audience space of the theatre", but are within-the-scene vantage points. Now, of course, early silent film, or some post-modernist, tradition refering, film can orient film mise-en-scene and framing toward the imitation of the early silent cinema tablo-style (that was influenced by the theatrical staging), or/and opt for the theatrical "frontal view" of the stage presentation, intentionally referring to theatrical presentation - but it would be just a marked stylistic choice, not a routine characterization of cinematic mise-an-scene. Hrvoje On May 20, 2013, at 12:08 AM, Frank, Michael wrote: my own approach, which i’ve taken to be more or less mainstream, has been to divide the visual track into three parts: mise-en-scene [what gets placed before the camera, sometimes called the pre-filmic]; cinematography [everything that the camera does to or with the mise-en-scene]; andmontage [everything that the filmmaker does with the film that comes out of the camera] . . . sikov’s breakdown has the advantage of solving the problem of how to classify lighting, which seems to hover between the first two categories -- or perhaps, more accurately, to inhabit both of them . . . still, i think there are clear advantages to using mise-en-scene to refer to the specifically theatrical elements of a film, and treat the camera’s intrusion into that arena as conceptually separate >while there obviously is no “right” way of doing this taxonomy i was surprised at sikov’s approach, and wonder what others do in their classes or in their thinking . . . any thoughts or suggestions very much appreciated > >mike > > -- To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the Film-Philosophy list, please visit:http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html -- Film-Philosophy Journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/ Film-Philosophy Conference 2013 (Amsterdam 10-12 July): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/ -- -- To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the Film-Philosophy list, please visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html -- Film-Philosophy Journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/ Film-Philosophy Conference 2013 (Amsterdam 10-12 July): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/ -- -- To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the Film-Philosophy list, please visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html -- Film-Philosophy Journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/ Film-Philosophy Conference 2013 (Amsterdam 10-12 July): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/ -- To manage your subscription or unsubscribe from the Film-Philosophy list, please visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html -- Film-Philosophy Journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/ Film-Philosophy Conference 2013 (Amsterdam 10-12 July): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/ --