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Hi, I agree with Tania as going about glumes. Some characters of the new type can be seen in other wheats, I suppose it is connected with some stage of ripeness or even with some environmental conditions (for example periods of drought?). Additionally glumed wheats were most probably cultivated as mixtures, like "zanduri". Hope to meet you next year in Greece Aldona 2012/6/6 Soultana Maria Valamoti <[log in to unmask]>: > Dear Fred, > > Of course many colleagues have already agreed with your suggestion for new > glume wheat type spikelet forks but I thought I could send you my thoughts, > too. > > Most of the spikelet forks look like new glume wheat type, especially those > that preserve this very round protruding scar and the nerve that is strong > and comes close to the scar as if it is going to embrace it (not very > scientific terminology!!). > > Of course it is best to look at the material so it would be nice if you > could bring some of it to the next IWGP. We are organising a session with > laboratory workshop on the new glume wheat type so it would be nice to > discuss new finds. > > Also the issue of the new glume wheat type GRAIN needs sorting out and it is > great news that H. Kroll is going to provide us with a new publication with > measurements and distinguishing grains of emmer, new type and spelt. Looking > forward to this paper as I have 'funny' grains, too, that I suspect could be > from new glume wheat type spikelets. Your grains look like some neolithic > grains from Makriyalos that I could not tell if they were emmer or einkorn, > mainly because thickness of grain is more or less equal throughout most of > the lenght of the grain (seen from the lateral view)- as are yours from what > I can understand from the photos, and not higher near the embryo as it > should have been if we had emmer. So, they were not typical emmer grains but > I was not happy to call them 2-seeded einkorn, either. So, it would be nice > to get this material out again and compare to other grain that probably > belongs to new glume wheat type grain. > > Best wishes, > > Tania > > Quoting "durand. frede" <[log in to unmask]>: > >> Dear list members, >> >> please could you have a look at the attached pictures? >> >> they are spikelet bases from an excavation in center France dated from >> early Bronze Age. Some of them remind me /new glume wheat/. >> >> Disarticulation scar, primary keel and prominent veins on glumes fit well >> with this specie but spikelet bases don't show the rounded shape. >> They look very different from spikelet bases of /T. monococcum/ or /T. >> dicoccum /from the same settlement. >> >> There is also elongated grains distinguishable from others by their >> slenderness as well as by their flatness. I wonder if they belong to new >> glume wheat too or from a different shaped /dicoccum/. The last occurs in >> the samples with different shapes: typical shape, rounded shape, >> drop-shaped, pointed... >> >> >> Sincerely yours >> >> Frédérique >> >> -- >> Frédérique Durand >> Membre associé UMR 5608 Traces >> maison de la recherche >> 5 allées A. Machado >> 31058 TOULOUSE Cedex 9 >> France >> >> > > > > Tania Valamoti, > Assistant Professor, > Dept. of Archaeology, > Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, > 54 124 Thessaloniki, > Greece > > Tel: ++30 2310 997310 > Fax: ++302310 997278 > http://www.hist.auth.gr/en/Teaching-Staff/Soyltana-Maria-Valamoti -- dr Aldona Mueller-Bieniek Institute of Botany PAS Lubicz 46 PL31-512 Kraków 0048 12 42 41 754