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That's very sad, but a good point.  I may be a bit naive because I haven't had to worry mas uch about direct competition.  

However, I do find it very frustrating as a reviewer to try to pass judgement on a crystal structure based only on the standard table 1.  Sometimes I'm tempted to write "based on the information presented, darned if I know!"

Maybe 3rd-party validation through the pdb (with a report sent to the reviewers) is more appropriate?  

Phoebe

=====================================
Phoebe A. Rice
Dept. of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology
The University of Chicago
phone 773 834 1723
http://bmb.bsd.uchicago.edu/Faculty_and_Research/01_Faculty/01_Faculty_Alphabetically.php?faculty_id=123
http://www.rsc.org/shop/books/2008/9780854042722.asp


---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 20:00:48 +0200
>From: Maria Sola i Vilarrubias <[log in to unmask]>  
>Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] very informative - Trends in Data Fabrication  
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Cc: [log in to unmask]
>
>   Dear Phoebe,
>
>   I cannot imagine myself delivering maps and
>   coordinates (after years of work... I insist: after
>   years of work) to a  reviewer that could be, for
>   whatever chance, my best competitor (even if I
>   suggested to the editor not to include him/her as a
>   reviewer... but decisions from editors are of all
>   kind).
>
>   I simply prefer not imagine this after two
>   publications fuelled by clear, direct and strong
>   competition. That was stressful enough, already. If
>   I have to add to this stress the thought that my
>   coordinates can go to the "wrong" hands, then I
>   think I would just give up or, alternatively, send
>   the work to a lower impact, fast-publishing journal
>   and make my life easier while sending my scientific
>   future to the low-impact bin, killing future
>   opportunities.
>
>   Competition is there. I see that data to be
>   deposited is strictly confidential. I support the
>   PDB to make the quality check work at the level you
>   mention, but not a reviewer:  People are nice but
>   the world is big and competition is crazy… at
>   least enough to make fraud or copy other's work. The
>   latter is less difficult; by copying ("simply copy
>   and paste to my computer this nice structure that I
>   was looking for!"), there is no need to invent
>   anything.
>
>   About a wrongly fit compound, the reviewer can ask
>   images about the model in a map calculated at a
>   specific sigma and in different orientations.
>
>   Maria
>
>   On 2 April 2012 18:43, Phoebe Rice
>   <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>     Can we leverage this to push journals to routinely
>     allow reviewers access coordinates and maps?
>
>     Outright fraud is outrageous, but I'm actually
>     more worried about ligands fit to marginal density
>     and other issues of under-supervised model
>     building.
>
>     =====================================
>     Phoebe A. Rice
>     Dept. of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology
>     The University of Chicago
>     phone 773 834 1723
>     http://bmb.bsd.uchicago.edu/Faculty_and_Research/01_Faculty/01_Faculty_Alphabetically.php?faculty_id=123
>     http://www.rsc.org/shop/books/2008/9780854042722.asp
>
>     ---- Original message ----
>     >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 08:41:02 -0700
>     >From: CCP4 bulletin board <[log in to unmask]>
>     (on behalf of "Bernhard Rupp (Hofkristallrat
>     a.D.)" <[log in to unmask]>)
>     >Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] very informative - Trends
>     in Data Fabrication
>     >To: [log in to unmask]
>     >
>     >   Robbie has restored the PDB_REDO of 3k78
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >   It is at
>     www.cmbi.ru.nl/pdb_redo/others/3k78.tar.bz2
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >   and Louise Jones form the IUCr office has
>     kindly
>     >   made the article open access.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >  
>     http://journals.iucr.org/f/issues/2012/04/00/issconts.html
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >   BR
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >   From: CCP4 bulletin board
>     >   [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>     Bernhard
>     >   Rupp (Hofkristallrat a.D.)
>     >   Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 06:06
>     >   To: [log in to unmask]
>     >   Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] very informative -
>     Trends in
>     >   Data Fabrication
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >        >Hofkristallrat auA*er Dienst, is
>     written as
>     >   Bernhard - unless you are referring to some
>     other
>     >   guy with a french name Bernard.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >   As one may extrapolate given my recent paper,
>     I have
>     >   been called names a lot worse....
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >   A*  And the book indeed is a bible of
>     xtallography.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >   Enough of this - it is becoming embarrassing.
>     I wish
>     >   I had done a more careful job proofing, as
>     over 500
>     >   errata attest to,
>     >
>     >   and we all are only seeing further because we
>     are
>     >   standing on the shoulders of giants. So once
>     again
>     >   thanks
>     >
>     >   to all the contributors I have pestered with
>     my
>     >   questions on BB and then some, and to all
>     those who
>     >   actually read BMC and
>     >
>     >   submitted errata.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >   Best regards, BR
>     >
>     >  
>     -----------------------------------------------------------------
>     >   Bernhard Hieronimus Rupp, Hofkristallrat a.D.
>     >   001 (925) 209-7429
>     >   +43 (676) 571-0536
>     >   [log in to unmask]
>     >   [log in to unmask]
>     >   http://www.ruppweb.org/
>     >  
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >   Once the sun of science is standing low, even
>     dwarfs
>     >   cast tall shadows
>     >  
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>
>   --
>   Maria Solà
>   Dep. Structural Biology
>   IBMB-CSIC
>   Baldiri Reixach 10-12
>   08028 BARCELONA
>   Spain
>   Tel: (+34) 93 403 4950
>   Fax: (+34) 93 403 4979
>   e-mail: [log in to unmask]